Yes, Yes they are :)

Great for IRL PUGs! Now you can declare to everyone what archetype you are!

Also faction shirts! Maybe I want to be an Aether Pirate! Yarrr!

Besides the fact that I really don't like the icons for Operator, Commander and Ranger, I do think that having archetype shirts is nice.
Here's what I don't like about the icons:[list]
[*]Operator looks like a random assembly of purple shapes without meaning or imparting any feel of the archetype. Complete failure.
[*]Using something akin to a first sergeant's insignia for the commander says "soldier" far more than it does "commander;" especially when "Commander" is an actual military rank (0-5) represented by a silver oak leaf.
[*]The Ranger icon looks to be a combination of various targeting reticles, but there is not enough contrast for any of them to actually look like targeting reticles. As a result it just looks like a white box around a featureless square red gem, surrounded by a gray industrial courtyard. Probably not what you were going for.[/list]
Also, it appears as if the key color of the enforcer logo is missing. Where is the orange? On the merchandise, it looks like you've replaced the orange with blue.

And no, I have not waited until now to provide this feedback. I provided the same input [url=https://cityoftitans.com/comment/116035#comment-116035]in march[/url] when they were first introduced and again [url=https://cityoftitans.com/comment/118038#comment-118038]in April[/url] when the [i]What We Can Do: Powers[/i] update came out.

Actually Project_Hero, if you would choose to go to those links you will find a lot of discussion of those shapes. There are even some alternates proposed by the forum participants. You can be an apologist if you like, but they are still very poor examples of iconography and graphics art.

Just go to [url=https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/game/classes]this page[/url] and click the various classes to see each has an icon that embraces and imparts what the class entails.

Heck, even CoX had a more meaningful icon [img]https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//1/1e/V_archetypeicon_mastermind.png[/img] for Masterminds.

The first emblem still looks terrible :(

Doesn't make it wrong :p

I think that hoodie has my name on it.

Project_Hero wrote:

Edit 3: also is it being an apologist if I actually like the designs on these completely subjective pieces of art and attempted to shed light on what I believe to be good about their designs?

Absolutely not. But if you had just said you liked them instead of trying to rationalize against my opinion, then I wouldn't have called you an apologist. ...because, that is, after all, the actual definition of apologist.

Huckleberry wrote:

Besides the fact that I really don't like the icons for Operator, Commander and Ranger, I do think that having archetype shirts is nice.
Here's what I don't like about the icons:Operator looks like a random assembly of purple shapes without meaning or imparting any feel of the archetype. Complete failure.
Using something akin to a first sergeant's insignia for the commander says "soldier" far more than it does "commander;" especially when "Commander" is an actual military rank (0-5) represented by a silver oak leaf.
The Ranger icon looks to be a combination of various targeting reticles, but there is not enough contrast for any of them to actually look like targeting reticles. As a result it just looks like a white box around a featureless square red gem, surrounded by a gray industrial courtyard. Probably not what you were going for.
Also, it appears as if the key color of the enforcer logo is missing. Where is the orange? On the merchandise, it looks like you've replaced the orange with blue.
And no, I have not waited until now to provide this feedback. I provided the same input in march when they were first introduced and again in April when the What We Can Do: Powers update came out.

FWIW, I agreed with you then and I agree with you now. But putting something on a T-shirt is probably as "fait accompli" as you can get these days. For the record, I also cringe every time I read the "Answer the Call" slogan too. But I've discovered you should pick your battles carefully on the forum... and even then the decisions are just as likely go another way as yours. Nothing wrong with having an opinion however... especially a good one like the above ;)

Much like Huckleberry, I don't care much for the Commander's symbol either. I actually thought "So, they're NCOs or have a military theme to them?" when looking at it.

Didn't hate the Operator one, but I did think "X-Men doors?" :p

The enforcer's fist looks like it's some sort of "Chant your groups name for power!" rally thing. :p Why the first for melee and not crossed swords? Batons? Brass Knuckles? Maybe just a Nike symbol :p I don't know. Fist really just screams "Welcome to the rally!" :p

I like what I see here. I am a hoodie fan, and I will likely end up buying both.

They could still change things. All it means is the shirts/hoodies would have the original, but now, not used, symbols. :p

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Brand X wrote:
They could still change things. All it means is the shirts/hoodies would have the original, but now, not used, symbols. :p
Indeed. If you notice, the CoT logo has changed, so those who bought the shirts with the original logo now have a no longer available, retired item.

So is this an invitation to rehash the argument from earlier this year?

Time to make shopping !!!!

Doctor Tyche wrote:

It is an invitation to make a topic for the argument. We're still a year from release, so if a solid argument and suggestion hits, well, who knows.

Considering the Operator.

Perhaps something that touches on the concept of a puppetmaster like this:
[img=480x640]https://thumb9.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/573151/325318466/stock-vector-sketch-illustration-of-puppet-master-hand-325318466.jpg[/img][img=480x640]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8b/f3/cf/8bf3cfc0c6a0be31983c4a8a87bb7d74--psychopath-marionette.jpg[/img]
I like the orientation of the first, but the colors of the second.

but we need to somehow capture the idea that we aren't just controlling our targets as much as we are controlling their environment, which in turn controls our targets. Thus by the transitive property we are controlling our targets.

So rather than putting a marionette under the puppetmaster's hand, I would put a warped surface of concentric waves under the hand, kind of like this:
[img=640x480]https://previews.123rf.com/images/lomachevsky/lomachevsky1007/lomachevsky100700039/7352763-Illustration-of-a-water-drop-and-wave-from-it-Stock-Illustration-concentric-circles-water.jpg[/img]
Concentric waves (I recommend conducting a google image search) are reminiscent of gravity phenomenon, mesmerism, and the radiation of effects from a source, all of which are [i]Control[/i] power set concepts.

I don't have the image editing software necessary for combining the concepts into a single image, but hopefully the combination of a puppetmaster's hand over a field of concentric waves would make a good symbol for the Operator archetype.

Project_Hero wrote:

Wouldn't a puppet master theme be more fitting for the commander? The person who literally controls smaller minions?

The concept of a controlling hand above the battlefield is what I was going for, not necessarily an actual puppetmaster. Perhaps my attempt to describe the image as that of a puppetmaster's hand took you down a path I had not intended. I was relying on the image of the hand to trigger an association with one who controls and manipulates. Kind of trying for this vibe:
[youtube]vzpnZ1o_-E4[/youtube]

Even if someone takes the image literally as that of a puppetmaster, however, we still wouldn't be incorrect. Because when you look at what the abilities in the Control power sets actually do, they are all about controlling the movements and actions of unwilling sentient beings.

Project_Hero wrote:

Could use a controller. Like Video game controller. Or some other sort of input device. Or something utilizing chess imagery. I dunno I'm not an artist. I'd worry about it not being a simple symbol, though. A shield is a really simple and really effective symbol...
I dunno maybe a D-Pad? It's part of a controller... Is that a pun?

The chessboard imagery is a good one.

desviper wrote:

Also, I dig the archetype shirts, but the CoT logo throws it off for me :/

Now that you mention it, it does for me as well. Base of the neck in the back would be a great place to put the CoT logo. Kind of like how Crunchyroll does theirs:
[img]http://static.pub-ecommerce.crunchyroll.com/product_images/b4a29c9db2891112484b6fea031463ed_w400/official-crunchyroll-t-shirt-small.jpg[/img]

Personally I like the archetype logos. But that's me.

Also, is there any plan to have a PIT hoodie at some point? I like TCPD, but since I plan to have my main work closely with/for PIT I like the idea of wearing one of those hoodies while i play :)

The operator's logo is a D-Pad. You're just looking at it the wrong way :p

I don't disagree there. The design is muddled visually from being what it's supposed to be. I'd suggested in the other thread lightening the color of the negative space so it's less eye catching.

The overall design, I feel, isn't bad but it might need some tweaking.

Edit: maybe changing the background part to match with more of the foreground. Cause there's a shape in the background that looks like an X with a line through the center maybe if it was more of a + then it'd add more with the foreground + of the D-Pad. It works well for the top and bottom parts, anyway.