In CoH, they originally had plans for Origin to be a more meaningful part of your character. Most of it was cut before game launch, and was more of a hindrance than a boon (DO's and SO's you most likely could not use due to your origin). Eventually they gave us the 'Origin brawl' power that could not be enhanced, and were of little use past level 10.
I have a better idea.
While Origin isn't a currently planned part of CoT, I think we have am opportunity. Much as every AT had an inherent in the end; I believe an inherent Origin-themed auto power can add to concept building that it never did mechanically in CoH.
Each Origin (assuming we can use them--it *is* hard to copyright 'Science') would have 3-5 choices you could choose at first level. For some Examples:
CoH assumed--more or less--you were a biological human.
Technology Origin? "I want to be a Robot!" Well, Robots don't sleep; granted a modicum of scaling Sleep protection. Often made of metal? bonus Lethal resistance, while weaker versus Smashing and EMP effects.
Magic Origin? I made an Elec/Elec Brute Chinese Thunder Demon, but he was always falling to Fear effects. I'm a thunder demon!
Enter "Eldritch": scaling Fear protection/resistance for those that have seen into the darkness and don't immediately blink.
Science Origin? Perhaps you're "Atomic" powered! You could have greater Energy recovery and damage.
The main idea is to add flavor to the origins, and allow to fills gaps between powersets and character concept. The buffs would be small or scaling with level. (perhaps +5% to acc, dam, endurence or recharge reduction) Some could have a scaling penatly to grant a greater buff that another inherent would otherwise grant.
Even easier, their would be no need for animating them, or even an aura effect.
Please tell me your feedback, I'd love to hear you thoughts.
The plastic tips on the ends of shoelaces are called Aglets; their true purpose is sinister.
I think that's a great idea. So what your saying is that each origin gives a passive auto-buff of some kind. In CoX I was a character nutcase with elaborate origin stories (in my mind lol. It was like constructing a haiku to make it fit into the limited data field we were given for that). Something that adds origin flavor but is low maintenance for Devs sounds super.
And you're certainly right about the origin based brawl power after 10, though the one sleep one where you through a dart and it had a chance to mez your foe for a few, could be strategic when you were a wee baby toon of lvl 4 or so.
The challenge in this of course is if one origin's buff wind's up being so much more practical and useful in game play then everyone will automatically take it -- except for character nuts like me who would break out in hives if the "best buff" origin worked against my char concept.
But I like where you're going with this!
Doctor October
There's another thread floating around, which discussed characters being able to take an inherent power of sorts that grants a buff and corresponding vulnerability (e.g. small amount of cold resist and a small amount of fire vulnerability). This seems to be somewhat similar, but expanded to include things like minor mez protection. I definitely like that it's more robust. The challenge for the devs would be to ensure that the magnitude of the protections/weaknesses are proportionate to the frequency and severity of the given effect dished out by mobs.
(I'm speaking PvE only here; no experience with PvP so I can't speak to what was used there)
For example, cold resist vs fire vulnerability - I'd never ever want that in CoH because there were simply not enough cold-using enemies, whereas fire was common as dirt from level 1-50. Here the devs have the opportunity to look at varying damage types (and mez types - fear in your example was pretty rare in CoH) from day one and divvy them out a little more evenly among the varying mobs and level ranges. If that kind of attention can be given from the start, then that would lessen the chance that one origin would be the hands-down "best" choice, and as a bonus it would give the players exposure to a lot more variety in the enemies we fight.
The Cold vs. Fire idea is indeed similar. My original figure is a net 10% bonus. To grant beyond that would add an equal penalty.
i.e. Natural: "Mundane": +10% acc, +10% End reduction, -10% Damage. As a non-powered individual, you have trained in other areas that many supers overlook.
The plastic tips on the ends of shoelaces are called Aglets; their true purpose is sinister.
I think 10% is a little high, I'd say 5% as a maximum.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Pretty sure every controller I ever made would be Mundane - so many of the AoE controls were inaccurate end hogs... :)
The numbers would have to be looked at very closely, possibly even differing among ATs, especially for the resist/defense bonii. A Ranger with +5% damage resist in all likelihood goes from 0% to 5%. A Stalwart with +5% DR could maybe go from 80% to 85%, which in my experience is much more meaningful. More relevant I think would be DR/defense-based classes choosing perks to fill in some of their holes, which then gets back to the problem of a "best" origin for a given AT (or subset thereof) - "Oh, you're a Fire Stalwart? Sure hope you took the "Frozen" origin to buff your cold res and drop your fire res from way above cap to slightly above cap."
Heh, those were my original figures, but I felt it might not impress ;)
Until a dev says "YES! We will do that!"; It's all up in the air.
The plastic tips on the ends of shoelaces are called Aglets; their true purpose is sinister.
Yeah, the 'best origin' is one of the cons of this, but there will *always* be min/maxers. It's a very good reason to keep these numbers low.
I'm still fleshing out the full list.
The plastic tips on the ends of shoelaces are called Aglets; their true purpose is sinister.
I never needed any bonuses for my origins in CoX, but something being done with it like a few story arcs based on my origin would have been nice. As it was, that part of the character building had no point.
Experience is something you gain after you need it.
Yeah, I know. I'm honestly not trying to come across as raining on your parade here (and apologize if I did) - I think this is a great idea and would definitely like to see origin matter more. And if I can help in any way...!
Rain makes the plants grow. Seriously, if an idea can't hold up to critique; it's not going to survive.
If you have any idea for some inherents feel free to share. I want to have around 5 choices, and haven't filled every list. Some will be better than others; some might be 'too good' to be added. I certainly want to garner some dev attention if possible!
The plastic tips on the ends of shoelaces are called Aglets; their true purpose is sinister.
I'm slowly trying to come with inherents that are tied to the Classifications, rather than origins... I vaguely recall mention that the origins we knew and loved from CoX might not be present in CoT. Since we don't know for sure which direction the devs are going, in the end I'd like to see a robust system that can support inherents based on both models. And since you're covering origins I figured I'd approach from another angle. Not that they can't overlap...
What I would really like to do is try to tie the choice of at least one inherent power to the "what hole do I most want to plug a little" line of thinking. For example, I'd like to see an inherent +res/def be applicable to builds that don't already have res/def powers. Perhaps a spread of options that includes one or two each of "plug a hole" and "enhance what I already do" options that would be class specific, and some number of generic options that might be universal choices for all specs.
Commander -> Director (Control/Support)
- +5% resist to mez effects on me [plug a hole]
- +5% defense to *type* damage [plug a hole]
- +5% duration to my mez effects [buff my stuff]
- +5% chance to proc extra mez magnitude [buff my stuff]
- +5% end reduction on powers [generic]
- +5% recharge reduction on powers [generic]
- +5% damage on powers [generic]
- +5% accuracy on powers [generic]
Thoughts?
There are very likely inherents that will be tied to classifications already. The point for Origin powers is to add flavor and a general purpose to them.
Work's been very demanding the last couple of days, and I missed striking while the iron was hot. I plan to get the full list up; probably with a new thread. Keep your eyes peeled.
The plastic tips on the ends of shoelaces are called Aglets; their true purpose is sinister.
Excellent basic idea- though I'd like to see a fully-fleshed Origin system, including things like Origin-specific contacts and missions put in place. Not likely to HAPPEN, but hey, this is a wishlist, right?
I'd be happy for any Origin-based effects of any sort to make it into the game. Our lamented predecessor really missed the bus with that one, IMO.
I am [b] not[/b] an altoholic! I can stop whenever I want. No, really...
and yeah, threadnecro. I've been off the forums for a while :D
I am [b] not[/b] an altoholic! I can stop whenever I want. No, really...
But it has been established that your Origin is up to You and will have no bearing on the game.
Be Well!
The devs seem to like the idea of not making everyone pick an origin, and I would assume they're not going to be talked out of that idea. If you make an inherent power option and call the "slight resistance to sleep effects" power "Tech Origin" because "robots" then you're not following that protocol, for one. Second, what if I want to be Tech, but NOT a robot per se? What if I'm just a dude with a lot of gadgets? Why am I resistant to sleep effects then? And aren't robots like TOTALLY IMMUNE to sleep, in reality? Why just resistance? People will feel "ripped off" by that, given the explanation for the buff. Worse, people who just want to min/max will totally ignore the flavor text and just make a toon based on what get's them the most bang for the buck anyway.
So let's assume that you are going to refrain from naming the origins, so like, anyone can take any "Origin Inherent Power" as you described in the OP, and it's up to us to decide which is most appropriate for our toon based on their backstory. Fine. So even if I'm "Mutant" I can still take the Origin power you envision as being "for Tech people, because robot". Ok, first, this means that the inherent origin power isn't doing what it's supposed to be doing. That power choice has now been totally divorced fromt he origin it's supposed to represent, which means it no longer conveys that information in any way and thus no longer really has a reason to exist at all, based on the original premise. So right there it's basically broken in that it is not having the intended effect. Second, a lot of people don't build a character with origin in mind, they just try to min/max their powers for efficiency, period. Those people will still just take take the "best" inherent power on the list and not care to explain it at all, which is still allowed. So now you have to try to balance them so that no one of them is inherently "better" than the others, which is really hard. If any one of them has an effect on combat, then they all have to. Just making one of them "you move a little faster" is now out the window as a possibility. Also, every tanker or scrapper will probably take whatever one reduces incoming damage the most if they're not hard-capped just with their other powers.
The whole thing sounds like more work than the payoff will get you, to me. And the worst part is, it doesn't even convey the original idea of "Origins are a thing" like you seem to want it to do, any way you try to work it.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
To add to Radiac's post.
Even if there are several options per "origin" they are still limited, and most origins can't fairly be "distilled" down to one single buff. Take robots again they would also be immune or highly resistant to poisons in addition to all mind affecting abilities (not just sleep). But then we have the problem of how it would interact with the attackers chosen origin since some of them could adapt to target, like magical sleep could could put robots into a very low power state (like a computers hibernation mode) thus having essentially put robots to sleep.
Then there's the problem of multi-origin concepts. What if I want my primary power set (or offensive powers, or some such) to have a different origin from my secondary set (or defensive powers, or some such), how would one properly represent that in game mechanics?
Personally I can only see two outcomes of an origin system. Either it "devolves" into a gimmick that only min-maxers actually care about or it become too complicated to properly use and balance. So in the end it's better to not tie any game mechanics to it.
I came up with something like this as well, here. As did others before me, like Louis Garou.
In all cases MWM has come down soundly that they are not going to change strengths, weaknesses or vulnerabilities based upon anything other than the powers you choose and the augments and refinements you slot in them.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
I don't think there's going to be origins in this game
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
MWM has said they aren't going to include origins beyond a potential text field, though it's much more likely that we'll have to include that in a general description field/box.
Ironically the Devs of CoH considered their initial attempt to pigeonhole every PC into one of five hardwired Origin types to be one of the fundamental FLAWS of CoH and they spent most of their full 8.5 years with the game attempting to unwind/delete as much of the Origin-oriented content from the game as they could.
The problem with games like this trying to hardwire every player into strict boxes like "Magic" or "Tech" is that you stifle player creativity. The examples of this are endless: What if I wanted to play a Mutant who primarily uses guns for weapons? Is that more a Mutant, a Tech guy or a Natural? What if your character is a robot that was given a magic wand to defend itself with? Is that a Science guy, a Tech guy or a Magic guy? There are so many character concepts that would never neatly fit into any game's categories no matter how many categories they tried to provide.
Then you have the problem of even defining what specific Origins might mean to different players. For instance let's say the game defines all Magic in the game as being like the Force from Star Wars - a weird kooky energy field that binds and surrounds everything that some people can tap into. But what if I want to play a "magic user" that gets her powers from a set of power crystals she wears as a necklace or from worshipping an alien deity? My character concept would be screwed because my definition of "Magic" wouldn't fit with the version the game wanted to force everyone to accept.
The simplest answer to all these problems is to not force player characters into any game-defined Origin types at all. This is the lesson the CoH Devs learned too late and the same lesson the CoT Devs appear to have heeded from the beginning. If you want to ROLEPLAY being a Science guy or Magic guy then feel completely free to do that. But the game should never define those thing for you via in-game definitions, content or stats.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
When COH was being developed there were plans for something like [url=https://web.archive.org/web/20030114025020/http://coh.com:80/heroes.htm]7 origins[/url], and each had a big effect on your power selections (how many, what types and their strength). By release, this was trimmed down to 5 origins, and the extent of their influence was limited to your starting contact and flavour text on some mid-to-high-level enhancements (we didn't even have those minor inherent attack powers yet). I think they also had an effect on what titles you could select at certain levels as well. By shutown, your characters "origin" really didn't amount to much mechanically.
While I agree that having/selecting a special ability tied to ones origin in CoT could be interesting, it could probably be replicated by the proposed class/power system as-is. All said I think it's for the best that we will determine our own origin via our character's biography - if only for the simple fact that no pull-down menu would be able to replicate the creativity of the genre, or of people's own imagination.
I agree. In fact most of my characters in COH never really fit their origin because I tended to create characters that were cybernetically or scientifically enhanced mutants. I just find it a lot more interesting to create a back story that mixes origins.
With COT's detached aesthetics I could imagine creating a runecaster that places runes on a double-barrel shotgun to enhance and modify it's firepower, which would be kind of mix of a magic and technology origin.
I was 'addicted' to Accuracy enhancements in CoH, so as soon as I unlocked Yin's Market, I parked a toon there and all of my characters became 'Magic', so that they could start using 'Owls' at level 10. Thus, the Origin 'lock' became something I continually subverted for convenience.
I'm glad I'll be able to ignore that in CoT.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I wasn't too keen on being told which Origin was appropriate for AK.
Was she:
Natural, since she had the Kheldian Peacebringer AT?
Mutant, because the Kheldian's cosmic rays altered the fetus's genetic structure?
Magic, once she became the Champion Incarnate of The Great (Cat) Mother?
[center][color=purple][size=16][b][I][url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78N2SP6JFaI]Just a cat from another star![/url][/I][/b][/size][/color][/center]
Almost every character I had in CoH was "kind of Origin X, but not really because he/she was sort of like Origin Y or Z as well". As others have said it'll be nice not to have to pigeonhole my CoT characters into any one single Origin box that doesn't fully describe what they are.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Everyone will get an Origin Power in City of Titans. We call them Travel Powers ... and you'll be able to pick from a pretty wide list of them for Level 1. Since "how you get around town" will become a somewhat signature thing about your character, I'm thinking we can think of our Travel Power as being broadly analogous to our "origin power" from City of Heroes and call it a day.
[img]http://s30.postimg.org/k7ptnuin5/33befffe274e31100e7231878b40b434_original.jpg[/img]
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
My regen scrapper was a "natural" but as I filled out her story she became a mutant with a "cursed/magic" sword that leveraged her mutant abilities. So...what origin is that? I agree that MWM is making the right call to push this mechanic to the side.
Second Chance: https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/CityOfTitans/SecondChance/
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Yeah I suppose if you squint real hard and don't think about it too much you could kind of pretend that your character's choice of travel power in CoT is kinda/sorta like an expression of their "origin". But does that explain characters who might end up with multiple travel powers? ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
What is the first picture in that travel power grid? Is that Acrobatics? I had a couple of characters in CoH where a specific travel power didn't seem to fit. For instance I had an army brat character where it didn't seem super jump or speed etc was right but an acrobatic jump between spaces or that grappling hook seem reasonable.
Acrobatics is our basic "you run and jump better" travel power, will possibl parkour elements to movement.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Many times I never felt as if one origin fit my characters and I would end up picking an origin based on which of them I knew where the stores were the best.
(insert pithy comment here)
To be fair, you didn't stick to the lore of the lore specific AT.
Now, it was likely a mistake to do a lore specific AT from a RP stand point, but generally, I'd say the idea would be, what was the general one.
As a RPer, I know I didn't care for the Incarnate system lore. Stupidest thing ever. I just RPed it as my character gaining power on her own.
I don't understand what some of those are. Is the second one a hand holding a needle?
Edited: the image wasn't copied, but im referring to the travel power tray
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
Looks like a swingline of some sort, yet there's a grapple next to it, which would infer a similar functionality. My guess would be Spider-Man webslinging versus Batman Bat-grappling. There's a been a whole long thread (that shouldn't be rehashed here) about some of the nuances of the travel powers already.
Ah ok. So now im wondering why there's a swinging and then a spider? Is that web swinging? I would think it would be one power type called swinging and maybe you can choose what you use to swing with, rope, web, chain
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
One is Swinging, the other Wall Crawling.
All travel powers will have customized animations over time.
More importantly, for the original poster who rezzed their own thread, we provided an [url=https://cityoftitans.com/content/mastering-your-character-primer-masteries]update on Mastery Powers[/url] which is the equivalanet of inherent abilities.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]