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This entire thread is a perfect example of why this game will probably do better than any of the others, even if it releases a few months later. So far, based on the released lore and the attitudes of the developers, this development team is the only one intent on creating a completely open-ended world.
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Me saying, "Give details" is not being rigid.
Having it be that mutants are either feared or not feared, is not being rigid, it's being consistent.
Saying, the world knows of vampires or doesn't know of vampires. Isn't being rigid, it's being consistent.
CO says, the world doesn't believe in magic, even though there is obviously magic. See. Lore! No different than, mutants as a whole (<---key words there) being accepted or rejected.
To be clear I don't mind games like CoH and CoT having "internally consistent foundations". I even [b]want[/b] them to have at least a "baseline" version of lore/headcanon to back them up. I don't want a completely rudderless game.
But one more time I want to stress why I think games like CoH/CoT are fundamentally different than most of your typical MMORPGs in terms of degree of freedom to explore almost any character concept you want. Nearly every other game out there essentially expects you to conform to some significant degree to the specifics of the given game world. For instance it's far more plausible that you would play a Jedi in a Star Wars game than it would be to play a Drizzt Do'Urden clone. A game like Star Wars -expects- you to play something Star Wars-y. Heck even DCUO expects you to play a type of superhero that "conforms" to all the story baggage developed in the DC universe.
But you sort of hit the nail on the head when you reminded us that CoH (and thus CoT) are primarily based on the Champions PnP RPG. Under that system (and more generally the Hero System) you are practically -encouraged- to come up with almost literally ANY kind of superpowered being you wanted. More than many other game systems Champions kept things very generic and "non-deterministic" when it came to its overall lore and backstory. This allows its players the maximum amount of freedom to develop their own character concepts.
I don't hate lore heavy RPGs - I've played plenty of them when the mood struck me. But what will make CoT special is that for all intents and proposes its lore can be used [i]as much or as little[/i] as we want in relation to our characters. I want it to be a game where I don't have to conform if I don't want. If you want lore-heavy there are plenty of -other- games for that.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
*holds up his Champions RPG 2nd ed rulebook*
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Details that don't require unquestioning conformity to those very same details are perfectly fine.
So are we to believe that ALL NPCs must feel exactly the same way about specific topics (i.e. mutants)? Do [b]all[/b] people in the real world always feel exactly the same way about given topics?
A game world could certainly establish an arbitrary truism like "space aliens don't exist". Does that mean the game could then never play host to something like a "Men in Black" organization or ever have individuals like Mulder and Scully? I fear the type of "consistency" you really want here would only serve to stifle creativity and force everyone to play far too single-mindedly than this game was designed for.
I'm sorry there will be people who don't like to RP like you do - get over it.
CoT can "give details" and remain "internally consistent" with its lore as much as possible. In fact I welcome it.
But because this game is more fundamentally "lore neutral" than most (based on its Champs RPG roots) I won't feel any need to CONFORM to anything the Devs "suggest" in the slightest.
Now will I have some characters follow -some- of the established lore? Sure why not. I do expect SOME of it to be good at the very least. But will I have any characters slavish follow all of the lore 100% of time? Of course not... I'm not a lemming and I find that "playing against type" is where most of the fun is anyway.
CoT will not be like any other game system out there. That's actually a GOOD thing. It's not something that has to be plastered with so many "details" that we end up playing the Devs' characters not our own.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
*holds up 1st ed Heroes Unlimited Revised rulebook from college*
*wonders why nobody has ever done anything with Rifts for as long as Kevin Siembieda has been talking about it*
Twitter: @SisterSilicon
Love Rifts. I joke that we should talk to Palladium about doing a Palladiumverse/Rifts MMO... in 7 or so years
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Would love a RIFTS MMO, but I often wonder how'd they play out a Juicer. :p They're supposed to die after so long!
Which I already explained. It's like you aren't reading.
What's the GENERAL consensus in the world of CoT!
Marvel for instance, mutants are generally hated. There are of course exceptions to the rules. Mutants who aren't overly hated by the masses. However, it still has the general rule of "No Mutants"
However, I do like how you say "Get over it" when the same could be said to you though :p
Sorry, some of us don't like the idea of the Glittering Vampire Force Using Drawf from Middle Earth being thought of as possible in the game world. But hey, I guess if that's what you like for your main. *shrug* Really nothing I can do about it. I can still want the game to have something to point to when it comes to "This is the game world we live in" :p
Ikr ;) Lore is great, but they're balancing it well with the ability to make your own origins. Might also be helpful that there's no forced origin choosing.
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I love Rifts as well. Hell I love most of Palladium's game settings (the actual system...not so much). There was that Nokia game years ago, but that handheld never went anywhere. They let the Savage Worlds guys create a licenced Rifts conversion for their system recently - maybe he's opening up a bit regarding his IPs.
I'd play it!
I would go as far as to argue that the timing is basically irrelevant. There are already many, many games people that want to play games can start playing today if they want to. Those games have all "beaten CoT to the market" so to speak, and by several years in most cases, for whatever that gets you. What *does* that get anyone? Nothing, I say. The only bad timing issue that can arise is some other game releasing on the exact same day as CoT, and if I were MWM I'd just delay the CoT release by about a month or two to make that not happen.
I good game is worth waiting a few extra months for. A bad game that gets to market earlier is just a faster disappointment train to BuyersRemorseVille.
Edit: The only reason game companies have that to release stuff faster than they can make it ready is the need to start making a buck before the parent company pulls the plug or fires the people responsible for the slowness.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Our own origins is not a problem. It's how the game reacts to you, is the question. Will it all be "You're a hero! YAY!" Like CoH? Like CO?
Read complaints about lore specifics being bad, but then I recall suggesting we get rid of things like "Rez at the hospital" like what happened in CoH, which was lore wise, you don't die. People complained about not keeping such a feature over just "res where I am" :p
So the lore of "No one dies unless your Statesman" was good lore? :p
Yeah, I'd personally change "Hey we have a lot of technology that can raise the dead" to "You just get knocked out everytime and you either wake up in a prison or a hospital depending on whether you're a villain or hero" There no fancy stargate tube that regenerates you into being, you just get lucky everytime, waking up on a hospital bed. I know it may be weird but it's less weird than "We can bring people back from the dead, but people still die" and perma death in an MMO is not a good idea, especially one that's as fantastical as Superheroes.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Sometimes, you can over-complicate the lampshades you put over your game mechanics.
Twitter: @SisterSilicon
Exactly! However, that needs to be done, is you just pop up at the start of the mission, or a specific point on the map if outdoors. No need for a trip to jail or hospital (unless the mission story line calls for it) just because one died. It's an MMO, good enough to just rez on the spot.
Those with a self rez can then rez where they died. :)
Well there has to be some drawback to dying
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
We could always be playing [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toon_%28role-playing_game%29]Toon[/url]...
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Or Paranoia...
(insert pithy comment here)
The Computer is Your Friend!
[wikipedia]Paranoia_(role-playing_game)[/wikipedia] << Didn't work!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_(role-playing_game) << Also didn't work!
Be Well!
Fireheart
I love the RIFTS setting but the game system is absolutely the worst. I kickstarted Savage Rifts (RIFTS using the Savage Worlds game system) and have to say that it so much cleaner and more streamlined.
I would definitely support a RIFTS MMO.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Being sent back to the start of the mission isn't punishment enough? Is it really that different than going to a hospital and the only draw back was some travel time?
We could do the hospital thing, but just don't make it part of the game lore of "No one dies! *cough*exceptStatesman*cough*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_%28role-playing_game%29
Replace open parenthesis with percent 28 and replace close parenthesis with percent 29. ^_^
The parentheses are not your friends. They are saboteurs.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
If there's "really nothing you can do about it" then why continue to whine about it? ;)
P.S. For the record I probably wouldn't haphazardly play a "Glittering Vampire Force Using Dwarf from Middle Earth" in CoT unless I could come up with a really, really good RP idea for why such a thing would be there. Have any good ideas? ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I don't know. May just be fun to play. I made a fairy cat girl princess vampire because I got tired of seeing so many vampire nekos. :p Was a fun joke character, until people got upset at her actually killing/maiming the bad guys (and some innocent people totally by accident).
Then there was the time, I was invited to join a villain group that consisted of mercs who were into assassination, rape, bdsm, murder, theft, but my short demon who prefered to kill puppies, kittens, baby rabbits and generally things smaller than her extremely small self, was going to far with the killing of baby animals.
I obviously don't get some people's ideas of RP. :p The first left me wondering why people didn't try to stop her or try to get her to change her ways and the second one left me wondering "That baby animal killing was what was considered to far?"
Topic is wandering. There are other places to discuss death penalties. Devs, to my knowledge, have not commented on their plans, it's certainly something worth discussing but not in this thread.
As far as the hospital porters being a restriction on roleplaying. I disagree. My phone is not magic because I'm an engineer (I just got a new phone, it's very nice) But for a moment imagine you are a wizard from the time and age of Camelot. If you saw my phone what is your response? "What sorcery is this!?" is probably a reasonable reaction to a black (and blue) shard of glass that can show images of Japanese cats on the far side of world. Do we provide a blank canvas of nothing and everyone plays their own RP to the letter? No. The hospital porters are just part of the setting. They are a mysterious piece of machinery probably crafted by a demented orc mage from Tal'uk, as far as our wizard is concerned. Either way it doesn't stop the wizard and the phone or hospital porter to work or from interacting.
There's also nothing saying that the hospitals don't use magic to transport the dead to the hospital for revival. Every Titan City ID could have a sigil hidden on the back that alerts a magical cat at the hospital that recalls the person on the ID. There are some fun storytelling ideas I have for that. So always remember to carry your card! Doctors aren't too thrilled to have a cat roaming around in the hospital but prompt medical attention has saved a lot of lives. And the kids in pediatrics seem to like the cat.
Heck you could have two hospital systems one that uses super science and another that uses magics. "No, don't take me to Sacred Heart! Take me to Ozma's, this isn't a bullet wound!"
On the mutants side. I think that is a more nuanced argument. Personally, I'd play it as Titan City, like Paragon City before it, attracts large numbers of unique individuals thus outlooks within the city are more accepting. However, large pockets of bigotry exist beyond the city, in the country and around the world. Thus mutants of all types flee to the city to hide from persecution in their homelands.
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Well even evil people can have their own definitions of what is socially acceptable or not. ;)
I don't know why exactly but your post reminded me of this little scene from Blazing Saddles:
[youtube=400x300]EOM9qakI0Fg[/youtube]
I suppose the idea was that if "bad" people can still hate certain bad things themselves then maybe they could also love certain bad things too much.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Dev has mentioned that basically any definition of "magic" can exist within CoT.
My question to Dev is how are you going to communicate that to the player base? Will a player be able to figure out the framework for "magic" before they create a character or will they have to actually play the game for a while then reroll the character once they '[I]figure it out[/I]'?
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
This is actually a reasonable question. See... I -can- be nice sometimes. ;)
Over the last few years the Devs have released a pretty sizeable amount of the future game's lore and so far much of it seems accessible by this webpage (i.e. the Guides section). I'm guessing that in the long run a huge (if not all) the revelant lore will be available to read outside the game on various webpages/wiki so if you're interested in basing your character concepts very deeply into the background of the game world I think you'll be able to do that even before you spend serious amounts of time in-game.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
That is the path of least resistance (web page / wiki) and a reasonable solution to part of the problem. Dev will also need to find a way to communicate that the lore does not encompass all of the possibilities.
I'd like to see a lore or world background info dump be accessible through the Character Creator in some way. If people are concerned about how their character's powers/lore weave into the game world, I believe the Character Creator will be the first place people will look for an answer.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
In this game I feel like the only limit to your toon's backstory is your own imagination, so I don't think anyone really needs to be told that. Sure you might bop around the game for a while and then an idea hits you for a new character concept, and if so great. But I don't think the lore is going to be a thing you need to know to make a toon that meshes well with the game. The cmoicbook genre is so all-encompassing that anything goes, I feel.
I remember in CoX there was a SG that was basically a Star Trek landing party that landed on Paragon City. Their base was the crashed remains of their starship, etc. You could just as easily have a set of toons that are basically a DnD adventuring party (complete with robes and armor and whatnot) running around acting like they've been transported to a strange new world and are trying to get home (or not).
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
CO's "Star Fleet Away Team" is pleased to learn there have been others who went to a Planet of Capes.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Wikipedia cheats. [url=https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-2.2]Parentheses are reserved characters and aren't supposed to be in URLs.[/url] Converting them to [url=https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-2.1]percent encoding[/url] makes them work:
[code][notag][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_%28role-playing_game%29]Paranoia[/url][/notag][/code]
[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_%28role-playing_game%29]Paranoia[/url]
Unfortunately, the [code][wikipedia][/code] tag is too dumb to support percent escapes.
The really annoying thing about this is that when URLs include these characters, it's hard for auto-link-generating scripts to operate correctly. For example, a URL with a space in it fools a link generator into thinking the URL ends before the space. Also note how the auto-link-generator stopped at the open parenthesis.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Magic is from me Lucky Charms!
(insert pithy comment here)
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