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Has the team decided whether we be able to grapple or not?
If so, can I grapple my enemy and teleport to drop them from a high point?
Or do any of the following while clenching an opponent:
Set fire, Shock, Freeze, Acid / Toxic Burn, Close Range Shots, Worm Hole, etc?
RAN Ink
I believe the consensus is that grappling requires too many 'handles' on the models and causes too many problems, when the models are all different sizes and shapes. You can probably expect 'Lift' powers and Knock effects, but nothing like grappling.
Be Well!
Fireheart
If I learned anything from D&D; its that grapples are always a pain in the ass.
I could see it being trouble for a small Natural build against an ogre. Possibly a size and power ratio would make grappling more likely?
A brute or powerfully built toon could pick up enemies in a certain size and shape range?
RAN Ink
Sorry but no. What you look like has no bearing on your combat stats.
Also worth considering is grappling's main weakness is it doesn't do multiple opponents well. That is not a plus in a game that will regularly have you outnumbered even solo.
The problem wasn't a matter of apparent size/strength, but how to Model the tiny catgirl mage picking up the giant troll. She can't even reach the 'grip points', while the troll would have to use just his fingertips, to grab the 'grip points' on the tiny figure.
Be Well!
Fireheart
To try and make it more clear.
MWM has said that visuals (a.k.a ones costume) will not give any advantages nor any disadvantages in combat, primarily because super powers throw any form of consistent power to strength ratio completely out the window. Thus, in regards to grappling specifically, a large toon will not have an inherent advantage over a small toon.
The major problem though is getting the moves look even decent. Making a system where a 4 foot character (shortest?) grapples or being grappled by a 8 foot character (tallest?) and makes it look natural is an exercise in frustration, especially if you don't want to make several custom versions based on height differences between the two combatants.
Expanding on what blacke4dawn said, imagine this: there are six people. The first is 4 feet tall, two of them are 6 feet tall, one of them is 8 feet tall, and the last one is an 8 foot tall crocodile man, back spikes, claws, tail, the works.
Now, lets imagine the animarion for a German Suplex; basically, [url=http://i.imgur.com/X2HnybZ.jpg]you grab the other person by the waist from behind and flip them over your head into the ground[/url]. The pair of dudes both at six feet do this fine, as they're sized similarly enough for the positioning of their hands to work well. They can suplex each other without any kind of clipping.
Then, however, one of the 6 foot guys attempts to suplex the 4 foot girl. Here's a handy size comparison for someone who's four feet tall versus someone who's six feet tall:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/uRZ66lf.jpg[/img]
The size difference would cause some serious problems here. the guy would have to actually crouch down in order to get his hands around the girl's waist, which would be difficult for animators to do at best. If the girl wanted to suplex the guy, in real life she'd basically just be tripping him rather than suplexing because her arms don't go above his legs.
It gets even worse when you compare 8 feet to 4 feet:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/MKoqS7U.jpg[/img]
Where the hell would they even grab each other? it'd look completely unnatural.
And all of that's before getting into one of the eight foot tall guys basically being [url=http://i.imgur.com/6s2X4g2.jpg]this[/url], whose proportions would massively screw with the ability to make a functional wrestling move, nevermind the tail, back spikes, and the like. Unfortunately, grappling just does not work very well in a game where the characters have variable sizes. And that's ignoring the fact that the kinesthetics of characters grappling specific points of another person's body are, frankly, difficult to do properly in the first place.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
Yeah grappling for such a game is probably more trouble than it's worth: the variety of humanoid bodies is one bag or worms, but what about non-humanoid bodies?
Imagine trying to grapple a [url=https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Soldiers_of_Rularuu] Soldier of Rularuu[/url] or an [url=https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Arachnos/Tarantulas] Arachnos Tarantula[/url] or any number of orbs and non-limped sprites.
The easy solution would be to disallow grapples, but then in any mission where you're fighting a non-human boss (and I hope there're many), you're at a disadvantage.
Best to just keep to knockback and knockup.
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I feel like this needs to happen, Eventually, but in a roundabout way. Just enough to be acceptable. ;)
So, 4 ft. MiniMe has a Powerset called Crushing.
My character becomes RubberMan as the animation starts, meaning the scale/size changes to match the Foes.
Or, if you're not using the RubberMan theme, instead you have the Psi theme, your characters limbs are projected, matching the scale/size for the Foe.
etc...
So whatever keeps the immersion, stays somehow feasible, is the best approach.
But like is said, WAY too much work, so it needs Allot of Effort. Not right away. :[
Why not do it the cheesy way? Have the individual's waist float up/down to the actor's hands instead of trying to make separate animations for every single type of body shape/size. Granted, this is only viable if you're just using one grapple point and it won't look nearly as polished, but at least the devs won't be pulling their hair out.
<==========)===O|TtDd|O===(==========>
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/toon-profiles-nnekonnin-llabanttselel-aalbusuumbra-aagimundr-sstaalsol-and-doctor]My original character profiles![/url]
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There is another even more important reason for the development team to just toss the concept in the garbage.
Simultaneous attacks from mutiple grapplers.
That is a logistical clusterfuck.
Two grapplers trigger attacks. Neither attack is classed as interruptible. What happens to the enemy? What happens if the two grapplers are fighting each other? What happens when there are more than two grapplers?
The entire concept, in a game like this, is simply too many headaches and logistical nightmares
The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue
[img]http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/203/c/5/Updated_Homage_by_Voldine.jpg[/img]
Sure, it could be done that way but I think it would be too limiting in regards to character concepts since it essentially limits grappling to very specific categories of powers, a.k.a body transformation and energy projection/constructs.
If the games overall "theme" was to be equally cheesy then it would be fine but considering the "accuracy" of the rest this would just look out of place. I think doing it this way would probably be more detrimental than not having it.
However the bigger implication is that if they do one thing half-arsed then they can't really say no to more things being half-arsed, and that would be really detrimental to the game.
I am going to snoop around to see if the others are planning this feature, I want this. SoH has not mentioned it. Not sure about VO.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
I tend to think that Grappling in a MMO is something that will eventually happen (just like I tend to think that full body physics will eventually happen). But at the current point we're at in 2017 it's something that's at the very extreme limits of software technology. It -could- be done now, but to do it now would take so much time/effort that it's still squarely in the "not quite worth doing" stage.
Give all this stuff maybe another 5 or 10 years and game engines (like some futuristic Unreal Engine 6 or 7) will likely be able to handle all of these currently cutting edge features in a very trivial, matter-of-fact way.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
VO will have grappling....."Sigh"....
Of course VO will have grappling, they will have a Frankenstein pet creation as well. I should have known they would have say "Yea, we will have grappling"
Grappling in a mmo is something of the past. Valves Source engine.
Grappling is doable, I actually believe VO could pull it off too. Nah, they probably cant.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
Yeah, I agree.
I think that AI assistance needs to come a long way before it can become a staple in games while looking proper.
I'm going to assume that whatever version of "grappling" that might exist in VO (or ever existed in the past in any other MMO) is fairly limited and not what most people would actually "want" in terms of grappling. If anyone can provide a good video of some MMO doing a good version of multi-move 3D grappling I'd love to see it. I simply don't believe that kind of thing currently exists... yet.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
There are no MMOs that have true grappling as in the greco-roman wrestling (or even in the sports entertainment) sense.
The closest you will see to a 3d MMO is Blade and Soul's take doen maneuver. Which relies on some of the underlying mechanics grappling requires. But it is one specific animation (staddling a prone target's chest) to perform other combos such as a head butt or punches, and stabbing or slashing.
Invictus has a bit more grapple-combos from grabbing an arm and striking, a throw, and slam. However, the models used are within a range where the specific movesets are workable.
In other words, there is a limit to design placed around the grapple mechanics rather than having a wider range of models where grappling could always work.
There was a game a long time ago where the devs touted a full grappling system which would have variations based on the target size, mass, and character stats (such as strength). it never made it to beta and what little did get shown, many compromises were being made either eliminating, goong back on, or putting off many of their features.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Greco Roman? That is very specific, but just grappling in general? Grappling is a thing of the past.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
Thanks for providing some details but your basic answer is the one I was assuming was the case. As I said before this is the kind of thing that'll probably be much, much easier to do in the future.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
You keep using the phrase "a thing of the past" as if that's supposed to mean something to a MMORPG like CoT.
Are you referring to the old-style 2D scroll-based fighting arcade games from decades ago? To make something like that work in a 3D setting where the body models involved could be of various sizes/shapes would be a very huge software undertaking that as Tannim said NO game has really ever managed to do properly yet.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Do you mean like a WWE title? Naw. There is grappling. I dont understand why people, including Tannim to my surprise keep alluding to it, but at the same time saying it does not exist. It exist.
Are you guys talking about something like WWE 2k? No, you cannot do F-5s, but you can grapple. Source engine has done this.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
Lets try this again, I think I understand where the communication error occurs. You guys are talking true wrestling with two characters locking up with grapple mechanics and reversals and the like? No, that does not exist. That is very specific, the Op merely said grappling, so I stated, yea, it exist, but it is looking like it will not exist here. That is why I said if VO does it I would not be shocked, then I bashed them as I usually do.
In all seriousness, VO could pull it off and I wont be shocked perse.It is very doable. DCUO was looking into this as-well, it is still a lingering possibility and that development team is pretty poor.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
Show us some vids then. Or at least better define what you think grappling would/should be in a MMO. From the way this thread is going it seems likely that what you think you're suggesting when you use the word "grappling" is likely quite a bit different than what other people here think it is.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
For what it's worth my definition of "grappling" is pretty much something close to "true wrestling". What exactly do you mean when you say "grappling" but DON'T mean two (or more) characters physically grabbing each other and manipulating each other based on weight/speed/momentum.
Basically I would still argue that grappling in the "truest" sense of the word is NOT very doable/easy in current software and anything you've seen in computer games up until now have simply been very limited/simulated versions of it.
If just you're talking about having a simplistic "grab" power where one character grabs another and maybe throws them like a sack of potatoes then -maybe- that might be doable for a MMO. But actual "grappling" where the two (or more) characters are actively locked together trying to overpower each other is still likely years away.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
read Tannim222 post. It exist. I am not just blowing air. What Tan is saying is to what extent.
Grappling is grappling though, that is why I said we are getting very specific here. This is a very debate heavy forum, which tends to twist and turns threads and narratives. I am not trying to win a debate.
You grab a guy and proceed to do something with him. Grappling. I did not bring up specifics. I was simply trying to understand where Tannim was going with Greco wrestling. I was like damn, we are going waaaay back to the roots now eh? A trip into history.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
In my mind, grappling would have only one definition: To grab a hold of some part of the opponent's body. Which parts, and what we do from there appear to be the rub.
If we could guarantee that all our opponents would be standing on the ground, then the feet would be the easiest things to grab, since from an animation and 'hooks' point of view, they would be in the same proximity every time, close enough for some slop in the animation to take it into account at least.
But we aren't all going to be standing on the ground, and so animating a grapple becomes not just a function of size, but a function of location as well.
In other words, the grapple animations themselves would have to be capable of being modified on-the-fly depending on the size and location of the opponent. I don't think our animations are capable of that. If they are, I would be happy to stand corrected.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
OK at least you're getting close to defining your "version" of the terms.
Just saying "grab a guy and proceed to do something with him" is not grappling in the strictest sense of the word and would be like maybe 100x easier to do software wise than actual full-bore [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grappling]grappling[/url] as defined by wikipedia. If you can't see how much harder ACTUAL grappling would be to implement than what you're talking about then all I can say is you won't have much hope convincing someone like Tannim of what you're suggesting here.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Exactly. I think software technology is just on the edge of being able to do this. Give it another 5 or 10 years and we'll be set.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
When I am corrected
https://cityoftitans.com/comment/118945#comment-118945
When I mention something was done before we get pages of specifics, you guys are crazy, lol. it is not that serious. I am flaming you or anything, just letting you know it has been done. We can argue until the cows come home about specifics, but it exist. That is why you guys are arguing about to what extent, because it does exist. I mean damn lol, does it have to be pages of this? Can we just not acknowledged it exist then move on?
Grappling exist, that is all I am saying. I did not imply you can do ground game or figure 4 leg lock, but grappling has been done.
Just because CoT may not be able to do it, or anyone here cannot do it, does not mean it has not been done or that VO cannot do it neither. I do not mean that with any disrespect by the way.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
Phararri says 'grappling has been done' and we say 'Where?', but Phararri doesn't even try to tell us, except to insist that he knows something we don't. That's not very convincing.
A problem with any 'grappling' scenario is, 'What if your target is not made of typical flesh?' Also, what if your target is considerably larger than you, like Andre the Giant? What if your target is wearing armor? What if your target is on fire?
In CoT, all of the above are possible. Your 'grappling' attack is nullified. Also, nearly impossible to animate. One would have to designate parts of the model as grippable hardpoints. Imagine trying to get a headlock on Eochai? No. Easier not to even try.
Be Well!
Fireheart
To grapple, as defined in the Whedonverse, is to have sexual intercourse with someone. [i]nod[/i]
[img]http://38.media.tumblr.com/70b6372d4d20ada1838cae7e1a9daceb/tumblr_nerr7nMjXR1s2wio8o1_500.gif[/img]
I am just waiting for someone to do a little research. I am just laughing over here that people wont even do a simple search. I am not doing it for you, I know it exist, Tan mentioned how it existed. I don't have anything to prove to you all, i am aware that it exist. If you don't believe me then don't. Did anyone read Tan's post? seriously......
But don't say it does not exist when it does. Grappling is grabbing hold of an enemy then proceed to take action from there. If people cannot admit that that is grappling, be it a body slam or headbutt they are simply arguing just to argue. I don't know what to tell you really, you are in denial and being difficult. Grappling is to grab hold, then proceed to slam, throw or attack them. If you do not think that is grappling, then get a dictionary and no, I am not searching that up for you neither hehe
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
Sir, it is not Our job to prove your assertion.
Why don't YOU 'do a little research' and amaze us?
Be Well!
Fireheart
[youtube]2u84cH_bmTA[/youtube]
"Suplex the Train" ... for a one shot win.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
While not one of my favorite moments, although it was a great one, FF3(6) is still one of my favorite games evar. Good shtuff.
Sorry if I did not read the latest comments but decided to get right to it and post what I was talking about, because I assume nobody bothered to search so here it is. This is a mmo I used to play
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e1RikuNY68
As you can see, in this mmo, there are grappling mechanics. It exist, but if you want to get picky,go right ahead, but this is grappling.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
For some definitions of grappling yes you're right, it exists. However, it looks to be on the more on the simplistic side and it doesn't address the biggest issue when doing grappling, significant difference in size (in both "directions") between those who are grappling.
Also, it's not our "job" to find supporting evidence for the points you are making, that is your "job". The biggest issue I have with everyone who essentially just says "search for it" when asked for evidence is that they can fairly easily dismiss anything found by others, especially if it's too easily "countered", by just claiming that that is not what they meant intended thought of or similar.
Yes, it is grappling, even if limited to a few move sets.
But it is also limited by how they designed their chaeacter models. There is only so much range of different model sizes which are applicable. There is also the over all setting and game mechanics which has a defined scope of character capability (physically speaking).
For a game like ours, we have a several hurdles:
A customizable character creator with a huge range of sizes for the model and even limb lengths.
This poses problems in ensuring that the model interactions to grab into another model will always interact properly.
We have a greater scope of "character capability". When we label a power set like Super Strength - players will expect that set will have greater capability to perform a feat of strength - such as grappling.
Which would require either going back and making the game stat-based in order to account for strength vs strength or strength vs mass ratios of success, or require us to develop an entire rule set of grappling which isn't stat based but still have variable aplolications built into each and every power set in the game.
It is our hope to ine day add a limited capability to grapple someone and attack them, but at the moment, it doesn't look to be a launch feature.
To be oerfectly honest, I wouldnbe stoked if we could just fet the capability of using a grapple-attack as a customized animation for knock up, down, and back effects. It may br even where we experiement in the future.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Eh? There are more than enough grapples. There are also boss grapples, for when you encounter boss characters.
It is limited by how they design their character models but that does not mean their character models are inferior or limited in comparison to other games. It just means they have to keep their models in mind, because they have a grapple system.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
And for CoT to have a grapple system, the devs would have to keep in mind several orders of magnitude more models.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Well I wouldn't really expect any real grappling in the game until much later, at the start, or atleast soon after the game launches? I think we can get some rope based grappling up in here, like that one animation for hell on earth in the demon summoning powerset. Maybe even some pushing a shoving attacks in melee range
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
I would love specific grapple animations for specific attacks in super strength fighting primary, secondary, or tertiary sets--that way you don't have to worry about stats, or strength or mass ratios--but I don't see why grappling would ever need to be universally available.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Instead of grappling as a set why not just make it a single button prompt when you are in range of suitable target.
The Vindictus video Phararri posted uses that kind of system (for the most part). Basically, the devs would only allow grapple/throws on foes they have specifically designed them to work with. You won't be able to suplex the FFVI Doom Train, but you could easily toss a purse snatcher. It would just be another basic attack like brawl in CoH except it could only be used on targets that the game allowed it to be used on. Maybe even include some aesthetic decoupling and give players a few options for what type of throw they do.
Obviously this wouldn't be there for launch, but could be done in the future.
We had already considered it but had to forego the time being. First is a matter of the UX.
Which isn't huge but the start of things to over come design wise.
Next is creating an entire non-stat but value based system for "stuff that can be geappled" and stuff that can't. Possible, but time consuming (note: I wrote an early draft for such a system and it affects nearly every asset we make besides buildings).
Next is then adding new effects to a powers system that is again, not stst based but value basrd to hook into the grapple system. And then having to go an rewrite powers that would require the use. This also includes re-eavluating our knock back mechanics.
Then, and this is the huge part - player character customization can literally end up breaking the ability to grapple becuase of height changes and limb-length changes. Which means we'd have to update the avatar creator ux to clue players in on when they "lose the grapple"'ability vs certain characters, and if and when they would be able to maintain grappling (if at all).
Adding customized animations after that becomes more of a time consumer.
All this for 1 power (a grapple button) - the roi just isn't there for us.
Like I said, we "might" be able to get some alternate animations in for knock up, down, and back effects.
But many of the same issues persist.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I get it Tannim, and I'm not all that interested/worried about a grapple/throw.
I still think you can design animations that are ambiguous enough that size differences don't matter. A shoulder charge/tackle or a simple one handed throw/push might be universal enough that any sized character could do it to designated mobs.
I am confused by the need to make an entire can/can't grapple system. This must be something about programing beyond my minimal knowledge. I would have thought you could just flag certain models without having to worry about everything else. Live and learn.
I do whole heartedly agree that a grapple system is not worth the effort involved though.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned any sort of Melee Mez (as in Hold) Power as a possibility. Not Hold as in the wrestling maneuver, but Hold as in the status effect.
Still, more work than it's worth, really.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Shirley, there's going to be melee Stun and Knock? Those are mez-conditions, right?
Be Well!
Fireheart
*grin*
Yes, but quite different than grappling. And the underlying mechanics of our controls other than knocks are not compatible with grabbing and throwing a target.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Ok, but, COULD grappling animations just be powers and/or Aesthetic options for certain attacks where they make sense, like Super Strength or Brawn?
If they could, it seems like they should, regardless of the feasibility of grappling as a broader game mechanic.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
As I said earlier, if we could over come some ofmthe obstacles we have, if anything, grabbing / hit attack could be an alternate animation of any melee knock attack.
And "brawn" has nothing to do with strength in any sense. It is a place holder name.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Hmmm ...
[b][i]IF[/i][/b]
$Target is in Melee Range
[b][i]AND[/i][/b]
$Target is under a Status Effect(s) = Total Lockdown
[b][i]AND[/i][/b]
$Self has "sufficient" Momentum available (not Reserves, Momentum)
[b][i]THEN[/i][/b]
Enable Melee Range Momentum Attack "add-on" to already existing Melee Powers of additional +Knock which costs Momentum and uses an Alternate Animation (think Haymaker type windup/smash).
Something like that might be doable, where the Total Lockdown condition dramatically reduces the available permutations of possibilities on one side of the ledger.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
At the risk of sounding pedantic, perhaps it would be best to replace that place holder name with something like:
[list][*]Combo Fighter ... because that describes the "core" mechanics of the powerset
[*]Finesse Fighter ... establishes an expectation that "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" leading to an implication of using techniques (combos) rather than just raw power
[*]Skilled Combat ... puts front and center that this isn't intended to be a "mash buttons" powerset, but rather one where the Player needs to "think ahead" and chain their combos wisely to achieve greatest effect (hence, relying on Player Skill to maximize advantages)[/list]
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Combo(name) was already nixed.
The current possible name is Tactical Combat.
While the twchnical capability of our power designer could work this way, again, unlikely.
Then we would have to go back to powers and update with these new effects and go back to the power designer and provide a sane UX for power customization - especially if a player added a prop to that powet it wouldn't work to gapple at all.
Again, the simplest solution if we could over come all of the other hurdles is to add grapple+throw / hit effects to knock back powers.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
So ... constrain the number of Powers this could apply to (the aforementioned Knock Powers) and ... it works?
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I mean, that sounds great to me. Give all melee knock powers a grapple animation option? That's freaking awesome.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I mean, that sounds great to me. Give all melee knock powers a grapple animation option? That's freaking awesome.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Not by a long shot does it "work".
There are still many problems we would need to address which may not ever make it feasible.
Mostly surrounding character customization in height differrences and limb-length changes.
Currently there is no sane solution in making sure the character will always be able to use a grapple animation in every combination. There are UX issues related to this as well.
Right now, the amount of work it would take to get it all actually working is no worth the ROI. It would seriously put us behind schedule or we would have to take away from multiple other animations which would be more widely applicable.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Well that does it for me then.... you guys have limited time... we know you have limited... maybe after the game comes out you can work on grappling but for now? I atleast understand that you can't put focus on it :]
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
All this does is get you a determination of whether a PC can perform this attack on a target. That's sufficient for a pen-and-paper RPG, where the players' imaginations are the rendering engine, but not an MMO, where absolutely none of that tells you how to draw it.
2D sprite-based games can do this easily because the rendering is simply "PC sprite sticks to this point on NPC's sprite, which is then drawn upside-down and the combination is moved up and down followed by some jarring screen motions." So you just need to define a single "contact point" on each sprite: an [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_O_notation]O(N) complexity[/url] problem which is quite manageable. And voila, you just martial-threw the train.
For 3D avatar-based games, this explodes into at least an O(N^2) problem because you have multiple contact points (hands on the PC, grasped limbs on the target, points where one body rests on the other because you don't want body parts just sticking through each other, etc.) and this has to be set up and tested for every possible combination of attacker and target. And further, you have to go through each animation and make sure there aren't any clipping or stretchy-limbs errors anywhere in there. And the killer? N has to count every available combination of body-shape slider settings. That's easily thousands, even after performing optimizations to group similar slider settings together.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]