Halae wrote:

That said, I personally don't think things should be added (outside of beta) without a fair amount of polish put into them, so I feel like we should wait for the full set of styles before getting a weapon.

Still you have to admire Paladin's never-wavering desire for nunchaku to be included in CoT. As I have always said I hope they can be added to CoT as soon as reasonably possible.

But as a sober-headed realist I still wouldn't count on seeing a complex weapon style that's as "narrowly focused" as that on launch day. By comparison it took CoH six months to implement capes and 2.5 years to implement wings despite those things being arguably more-or-less universally desired by the playerbase. The fact that nunchaku never even happened in CoH should be an obvious hint at their relative difficulty to produce in a game like this. The software engineering/animation work to do even a "rough" version of nunchaku would likely be in the same neighbor of difficultly as things like capes and wings would be. If this game was going to be called "City of Nunchaku" then obviously nunchaku would be a top priority. I simply suspect things like capes and wings are going to have a slightly higher priority in this game for the time being.

For what it's worth I hope I'm completely wrong about all this and that CoT will have nunchaku on Day One. I just wouldn't bet the farm on it.

Both Warframe's style and CoH's style have their good and bad points. Warframe suffers from poor power scaling but allows a more mobile and powerful game style, while Cooldown based, non-mobile combat systems allow for a lot of better fine tuning at the cost of gameplay speed.

I have responded directly to you in the past, Paladin. And in that responce I never said it was undoable.
For us to add chain weapons to the game and "do it right" (as in up to the standard we want to set for the gsme), it will probably be something we will have to look into post launch.

We could do something like what is in the video. As that has less to do with a complete weapon model and more with animation fx. For our game, we are looking to add actual weapon models with also act as an emenation point for power effects. As well has the ability to actually holster weapons on the body.

We could do it a quick way with little physics logic and no collision, but then you woule see wierd animations like the strike end of a chuck going through the character's head instead of hitting the target.

Another layer of complexity for us to tackle is that wepaons will have several ways of being customized. Animations can customized. Characters appearance can be customized (more so than what many games allow). Which means thar hard work of animation is even tougher. Especially for weapons with ropes chains involved. Most games have many limited options in the players' hands which allows for the devs to have "tigher control" over what is possible as far as movements is concerned.

I'm a bit fan of nunchaku, and would personally love to see many other rope-like weopons such as whips, flails, 3-section staff, and meteor hammer in the game. We nust have to be realisitic in what we can accomplish in the time we have.

From what I've read, I learned:
[list]
[*] Flexible weapons introduce complexities.
[*] The Devs have enough complexities to deal with, already.
[*] The Devs like the idea of flexible weapons.
[*] However, those complexities have forced the Devs to put flexible weapons on their list of ‘Things to Think About After Launch’.
[*] Paladin’s passion for flexible weapons serves as a regular reminder that the Players also like the idea of flexible weapons.
[*] This reminder has caused the Devs to think about flexible weapons ahead of schedule, primarily in terms of the problems that would have to be overcome, in order to implement flexible weapons.
[*] That’s not entirely a bad thing.
[*] The Devs would like to launch the game within 2 years.
[*] The Devs have a gajillion things to do before then.
[*] The Devs (currently) have no idea what All of the problems with flexible weapons are, so they have no plan for addressing them.
[*] Without a plan for specifically addressing flexible weapons, nobody can give a time-frame for them – except to say ‘After Launch’.
[*] Disappointment reigns.
[/list]

Be Well!
Fireheart

Since it is anticipated that mods will be supported, why not just make friends with a modder with similar interest to develop a client side mod that inserts nunchucks into your game. Then you will never have to worry about when if ever it is added; you will always have them at hand.

Well it may be possible to have other client side mods. CoH did, but it wasn't "officially" supported either. We aren't talking about allowing people to edit server side data.

TheMightyPaladin wrote:

I never asked for a time frame, just a yes or no the question, "will they ever be there?" so I know if it's even worth hanging out and waiting.
The closest I seem to be getting is we hope so but our standard for including it is impossibly high so you probably won't live long enough to see it.
Hang around if your grandkids are also into nunchucks.
That's why my focus has changed from "will they ever be there?" to "find an easier way to do it !"
[u]I'm old I can't freekin wait forever just because they want to make it way better than it needs to be[/u]
Hell I'd be perfectly happy with nunchucks that appear in my hand when I use them and disappear into nothing when I stop

What You may deem good enough may be something completely different compared to the community as a whole.

It looks to me that you would be happy with a "substandard experience" as long as you have any of that type, but the danger of MWM doing it for nunchucks is that then anyone could demand the same thing for their preferred weapon (or other option) and soon a lot in the game would be "substandard".

TheMightyPaladin wrote:

Actually if you're the only game doing something then it can't be sub standard because you're the one setting the standard.
And if it makes the people who want it in the game happy what difference does it make to anyone else?

Because most things, contrary to what you seem to think, don't exist in isolation.

Nunchucks won't be judged by itself, it will be compared to and judged against every other weapon they implement. And if there is a clear "quality difference" in the implementation of it it will be called out.

TheMightyPaladin wrote:

Despite asking repeatedly, I've never gotten much more than ignored, Except from Lothic who thinks I'm Don Quixote

Being a "Don Quixote" is a good analogy here. The reason you keep getting so much "negative resistance" against many of your ideas in this forum has got absolutely nothing to do with anybody personally hating you or even hating the idea of having nunchaku in the game. Like I said if for nothing but your sake alone I hope it happens. The problem here is that you stubbornly refuse to accept even the simplest explanations from knowledgeable people (both players and Devs alike) about what any of us can reasonably expect to get from a game like this. Wishing for things simply does not make them so.

You don't need a degree in Computer Science (which I happen to have) in order to understand what a Dev means when he/she tells you things like "We have to be realistic in what we can accomplish in the time we have" and "we aren't going to cut corners 'just to throw it in there'". Statements like "use a shoehorn if you have to just get it in there" and "non spectacular nunchaku would be better than no nunchaku until you guys can get around to making it better" might sound nice when you say them fast but in terms of basic software engineering methodology that's squarely in head-shaking faceplam territory. It's like telling a house builder they can go ahead a skip the foundation and walls because we want to have a roof to look at ASAP.

We all get that you want nunchaku in CoT. I'll bet if you asked every player on this forum they would each have their own equivalent desire to get something in CoT that would be just as difficult to implement and just as questionable in terms of level of effort versus overall playerbase appeal. But the difference between most of us and you seems to be that you unreasonably want Devs like Tannim222 to give you definitive yes or no answers (right now in December 2016) about very specific things that may or may not be added to a currently non-existent game YEARS from now. Can you really NOT understand why they can't tell you (or anyone) anything for certain at this point? Yours, with all due respect, is a very definition of insanity in keeping with your self-ascribed analogy to Quixote.

TheMightyPaladin wrote:

I just wanted to point out that the makers of this game have done something that the makers of COT seem to think is undoable

No one here has ever said nunchaku would be "undoable" in CoT. What multiple people have told you (repeatedly) is that it's questionable whether the time and effort to acceptably implement them in CoT is, frankly, worth the effort. One more time if this game was going to be called City of Nunchaku then we as players could reasonably assume that making nunchaku work (and work very well) would be a top priority. In a game called CoT, not so much.

If I had to guess having multiple types of capes and chest logos are not a priority in Warframe... please think about that.