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Discuss: Halloween 2016: Time To Put On Your Costume

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warcabbit
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Discuss: Halloween 2016: Time To Put On Your Costume

Remember, this is still a prototype - but we've managed, finally, to assemble everything on the first layer.

I hope you like it.

Things are starting to move quickly.

Temporary link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/1723241

A SECRET EXTRA VIDEO!

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dell56v
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You say starting to move

You say starting to move quickly. That makes me super excited.

Have a nice day!

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Looks good!

Looks good!

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Love seeing the progress!

Love seeing the progress! Just seeing some of the randomly-selected options in the video gave me ideas for a couple character concepts I was unable to do in the old game.

Will MWM's talented artists also provide us with a selection of pre-sets for body, face, etc? Ideally, I'd like to start with a pre-set for old, fat, buff, etc and then tweak it with sliders.

Also, can I assume when you get round to the actual UI it will be possible to modify several components at once instead of having to go back to each as in the video? Ideally I'd like to see a checkbox mechanism so we can set which pieces should modify together.

I was surprised by the detail in the face close-up. And this is only a prototype! What makes the eyes move around, and is this something that will happen in the game world?

Thanks as always for the update and the detailed explanation.

Spurn all ye kindle.

warcabbit
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Lesse. Presets: Yep! Zero

Lesse. Presets: Yep! Zero question. We can do it, we will do it, we need to do it. For one thing, neck length on the athletic body is going to be shorter than the neck length on the bulk body shape.

Actual UI: Oh yes. We're hoping to eventually do a thing where you can pinch an area and move it about, but that's advanced stuff.

The eyes move: Right now, by physically altering their UV values. Eventually: by animation. Eventually: by programatically controlled animations. Is it something that'll happen in the game world? It _can_. It probably will eventually, but not yet. Right now we needed to make sure we had the capability to do so, then we go 'okay, it's possible, now we need to get to higher priority stuff and come back to that later.'

The whole facial emote thing is going to be a _thing_.

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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

The whole facial emote thing is going to be a _thing_.

Awesome.

One more question: is that original CoT Halloween music (perhaps by Hellwreckage)?

Spurn all ye kindle.

warcabbit
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It's actually public domain

It's actually public domain by https://archive.org/details/zyzzybalubah_fangdango_lp
We credited it in the youtube description.

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Very cool! Love those

Very cool! Love those textures.

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Awesome! Really great to see

Awesome! Really great to see this progress.

And speaking of the music - the song in the first 1/3 of the video really reminds me of some stuff from Star Control 2 ha ha.

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It looks like you have a

It looks like you have a hundred sliders for the shape of the model! That is some serious tweaking! How many of those do you plan on giving over to the player during customization? And yes I do like the asymmetrical options. I already have some creative inspiration.

I thought it was interesting that the lips of your model in the video were affected by the eyebrow slider. Weird.


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Not alot of time to post this

Not alot of time to post this evening so... two enthusiastic thumbs up!

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

It looks like you have a hundred sliders for the shape of the model! That is some serious tweaking! How many of those do you plan on giving over to the player during customization? And yes I do like the asymmetrical options. I already have some creative inspiration.
I thought it was interesting that the lips of your model in the video were affected by the eyebrow slider. Weird.

That's the actual morphable points, not necessarily the sliders you as the player will see. (162 of them to be exact). Doing brow, for example, might need 3-4 of them to work in unison.

And yes, the mouth opening when you adjust the face is a glitch we're still working on.

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"That's the actual morphable

"That's the actual morphable points, not necessarily the sliders you as the player will see. (162 of them to be exact). Doing brow, for example, might need 3-4 of them to work in unison."

I thought the large number of morphable options on the shape of the model were really impressive. I hope you offer as many of those options as possible for players to have large variability of character design.

This looks SO amazing - can't wait for it to all come together. Thanks for another great update!

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All I have to say about this

All I have to say about this update....

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Earlier than I expected, this

Earlier than I expected, this update was! And much better my phone-as-hotspot connection than usual, so I could watch the videos on my Kindle. ^_^

Robot eyes I would expect, as well as asymmetric gloves and boots; this CO did. But in CO not all items could have all the materials; some things could be metal, others not, and so fit each other they did not. I hope all items can be made of all materials.

I'm also hoping to see soon clothes that aren't form fitting, both for civilian attire and those heroes who don't do spandex.

And I anxiously await the day I can download the AB app onto my Kindle or Android device. ^_^

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Foradain: Look again at the

Foradain: Look again at the dancing video. That's non-form-fitting clothes. We're just getting the UI right and some minor morph target issues solved.

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That music! And those feet!

That music! And those feet!

Now that that's out of the way...

This is a much bigger update than I was expecting. Fantastic news! Y'all must be feeling a lot like Hannibal Smith.

I'm curious about the textures. While it was nice to see them the camera had to zoom in a lot to be able to make them out. They didn't strike me as something that would have much impact on the costume's appearance as things stand. Is that a misconception or will they become more pronounced?

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We don't yet have specific,

We don't yet have specific, full-body textures, so we used tiled repeating ones that are kind of small, as a test bed. It's more a resolution issue and a recording issue than anything. The final ones will be more visible and larger.

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Even if it's not that

Even if it's not that pronounced, it's those small details that make the game really cool. When your up close hanging out or in a mission I think it will be a lot easier to see those types of details.

On a side note. I did like the fiery aura. And I really hope there will be pumpkin masks in the game!

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Again with another glorious

Again with another glorious update. This was well worth the wait.
To all the Devs: Thank you!

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BTW, what are those buildings

BTW, what are those buildings in back of the morphology demo (the 8:48 marker of the video)?

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Huh. Not sure. Could be the

Huh. Not sure. Could be the subway terminal. Too fuzzy to tell.

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great update.

great update.
love to see this kind of progress.
thank you for everything and keep up the great work.
can't wait to get my hands on this, but i will wait patiently. ;)

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This is looking great so far!

This is looking great so far! For what you have in it thus far, anyways - I'm still waiting on my reptilian body and tail options :P

I'm also glad that the facial animation stuff is unfinished - that thousand-yard-stare isn't the most pleasant thing I've ever seen, though it does look better in the morph menu for some reason.

Can't wait to see what this looks like with clothing and hair options available.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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Good stuff.

Good stuff.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Looking good! I never

Looking good! I never realized you could simulate eye movement by just sliding the pupil around. Easily fools at a distance.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Looking good! I never realized you could simulate eye movement by just sliding the pupil around. Easily fools at a distance.

And does so while using less CPU/GPU overall.

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I'm coming late to seeing

I'm coming late to seeing this. Looks terrific as far as the amount of control we'll have, even if it's somewhat less than demonstrated.

I'm only a little put off by some of the upper body anatomy. I know we're talking comic book aesthetics here, but the shoulders and biceps are a little too 'balloony' looking for my taste. Some deltoid definition would be a plus. Also, when increasing the musculature development in the shoulders past a certain point, the chest starts to look crowded and shrunken. I suspect its because the skeleton rig isn't changing. Will we have any control over that? Being able to modify hips and shoulders at the skeletal level would be a big help.

Looking forward to the additional textures. I always thought that added a lot to a costume.

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WarBird wrote:
WarBird wrote:

I'm only a little put off by some of the upper body anatomy. I know we're talking comic book aesthetics here, but the shoulders and biceps are a little too 'balloony' looking for my taste. Some deltoid definition would be a plus. Also, when increasing the musculature development in the shoulders past a certain point, the chest starts to look crowded and shrunken. I suspect its because the skeleton rig isn't changing. Will we have any control over that? Being able to modify hips and shoulders at the skeletal level would be a big help.

I kind of agree with what you said here but I also figure we're well within the "things can still be tweaked" phase so I'm not too worried about the final detailed body model aesthetics just yet. It looks like we're going to get enough points of control that shortcomings like this (assuming they survive into the final launch of the game) could be "camouflaged" with clever use of body adjustment, clothing, color and/or other things. There were an amazing number of costume-oriented things you could trick into working back in CoH and we had only a fraction of the controls there that we'll likely have in CoT.

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I'm loving all these options.

I'm loving all these options. It reminded me of something: Will we, possibly, have the ability to create a 'transformation'-type spell that allows us to change from one costume, to another? I'd love to see that!

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It's more that many effects

It's more that many effects require several sliders to work in unison to look natural. Figuring out how to bind sliders together into one and still work smoothly is a major part of the remaining challenge morph-wise.

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PrinceAuryn wrote:
PrinceAuryn wrote:

It reminded me of something: Will we, possibly, have the ability to create a 'transformation'-type spell that allows us to change from one costume, to another? I'd love to see that!

The Costume Change Emotes from CoH allowed you to "magically" (give or take depending on your ability to suspend disbelief) switch from one costume slot to another by linking the change with a fun in-between animation. This allowed for simple costume changes (like Diana Prince twirling into Wonder Woman) or full body morphs (like Bruce Banner becoming the Hulk). These worked fairly well in many cases and I would strongly encourage the Devs to make them a priority for CoT.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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WarBird wrote:
WarBird wrote:

I'm coming late to seeing this. Looks terrific as far as the amount of control we'll have, even if it's somewhat less than demonstrated.
I'm only a little put off by some of the upper body anatomy. I know we're talking comic book aesthetics here, but the shoulders and biceps are a little too 'balloony' looking for my taste. Some deltoid definition would be a plus. Also, when increasing the musculature development in the shoulders past a certain point, the chest starts to look crowded and shrunken. I suspect its because the skeleton rig isn't changing. Will we have any control over that? Being able to modify hips and shoulders at the skeletal level would be a big help.

Yeah - the shoulders and chest looked a little funky. So did the feet (at least one of the feet though that could have been perspective). I suspect something was up with the model's proportions. Hopefully those will be fine-tuned.

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Been busy but been following

Been busy but been following the updates.

Don't really have anything specific to add to what's already been posted, so I'll just throw out a general +1 to all the positive comments and a "go, team, go!" ;P

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Update: Looks like the

Update: Looks like the animation is pulling the shoulders too low. However, the foot issue looks like the result of a slight fisheye in the lens.

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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

Update: Looks like the animation is pulling the shoulders too low. However, the foot issue looks like the result of a slight fisheye in the lens.

Well, that means the foot issue isn't really even an issue then! Nice.

just gotta fix that shoulder animation then.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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Loving this update! Seeing

Loving this update! Seeing Captain Proteinshakes slim down (but not that much) I feel one big iteration closer to creating my hero.

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A SECRET EXTRA VIDEO!

A SECRET EXTRA VIDEO!

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Looking good, the movement

Looking good, the movement looks really nice! Thanks for the extra video!

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hmmm, will that sort of

hmmm, will that sort of running and jumping around be possible in the in-game AB? 'Cause it'd be great for seeing some costume options in action. ^_^

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

hmmm, will that sort of running and jumping around be possible in the in-game AB? 'Cause it'd be great for seeing some costume options in action. ^_^

It actually would be cool if that was the avatar builder. Where you could start out and be able to run around and see your outfit in different lighting and then change it on the fly

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I know we're focusing on the

I know we're focusing on the costume, but the jump has a very spiderman-y feel to it, I don't know how sure I am about it.

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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

It actually would be cool if that was the avatar builder. Where you could start out and be able to run around and see your outfit in different lighting and then change it on the fly

If the "avatar test area" included some lighting and weather effect choices, I imagine it'd help even further.

Off the top of my head, there's five primary lighting levels you need to include in a setup like this:
-Daylight
-Twilight
-Night time
-Firelight
-Indoor lighting, like from flourescent bulbs
Everything else can be extrapolated from those selections, and would help players make a character that looks good in all lighting environments, which as I understand it is a serious issue in Triple-A RPGs like Mass Effect, and would be even more important in a game like this, where the costume creator is a game in and of itself.

The weather effects selector would let people test FPS drops for the game, and generally feel out how strong their computer needs to be to run the game, since that's not always an obvious thing. It'd also let players get a look at their character in smoke, fog, snowfall, rain, cloud cover, and other things. Very useful if you're looking at every possible situation your character can end up in.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

I know we're focusing on the costume, but the jump has a very spiderman-y feel to it, I don't know how sure I am about it.

What if they allow us to choose what animation goes with our jump? A Hulk jump is vastly different from Spidey. What other thematic jumping can we think of?

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I'm loving the progress!

I'm loving the progress! There is one thing that kind of stuck out to me. The cowl mask. Specifically the opening for the nose and mouth. It seems kind of round to me. I was hoping for more of a batman/captain america type of opening. One that follows the cheek bone up, then comes down and under the jaw.

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Nyxz wrote:
Nyxz wrote:

What if they allow us to choose what animation goes with our jump? A Hulk jump is vastly different from Spidey. What other thematic jumping can we think of?

Even CoH gave us Flight Pose emotes to let us look differently while flying. They were admittedly a little hard to use the way they worked in CoH (because as soon as you tried to change direction the emote would drop so they only really worked if you flew in straight lines) but at least the concept of having "selectable animations" for a travel power was something they attempted.

Maybe like the combat powers we'll get fully "customizable" travel powers in CoT.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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The animation looks pretty

The animation looks pretty fluid. The way the legs go into the buttocks in the running animation is seamless. I'd like a bit more change in the geometry of the gluteus maximus, but it doesn't just clip in like two different peices intersecting either, so good.
The slight dip in the shoulders as weight is shifted during the run speaks of strength and determination. I think you captured that subtlety wonderfully.

Did I see the sun shining off the gold material at about the 2:24 mark? That's pretty cool.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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GrazerCoH wrote:
GrazerCoH wrote:

I'm loving the progress! There is one thing that kind of stuck out to me. The cowl mask. Specifically the opening for the nose and mouth. It seems kind of round to me. I was hoping for more of a batman/captain america type of opening. One that follows the cheek bone up, then comes down and under the jaw.

This is just one cowl / mask. CoH had many different types of coverings and masks and we can expect CoT to have as many, if not more.

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Nyxz wrote:
Nyxz wrote:

desviper wrote:
I know we're focusing on the costume, but the jump has a very spiderman-y feel to it, I don't know how sure I am about it.
What if they allow us to choose what animation goes with our jump? A Hulk jump is vastly different from Spidey. What other thematic jumping can we think of?

Did CoH have different jump animations? I thought it was just one and it seemed to work fine from character to character. I might be remembering wrong though.

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One thing that bothers me, a

One thing that bothers me, a little, is that the head should move separately from the shoulders and torso. So, when running, the head should remain oriented towards the front, eyes on the goal, while the torso and shoulders swing the limbs. Currently, Captain Frozen-Neck is making himself dizzy, every time he runs, from swinging his head back and forth at every stride. Looking down when he jumps might be good for foot-placement on landings, but he'd be better off keeping his head up and looking in his direction of travel.

Be Well!
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harpospoke wrote:
harpospoke wrote:

Nyxz wrote:
desviper wrote:
I know we're focusing on the costume, but the jump has a very spiderman-y feel to it, I don't know how sure I am about it.
What if they allow us to choose what animation goes with our jump? A Hulk jump is vastly different from Spidey. What other thematic jumping can we think of?
Did CoH have different jump animations? I thought it was just one and it seemed to work fine from character to character. I might be remembering wrong though.

Just the one.

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harpospoke wrote:
harpospoke wrote:

Nyxz wrote:
desviper wrote:
I know we're focusing on the costume, but the jump has a very spiderman-y feel to it, I don't know how sure I am about it.
What if they allow us to choose what animation goes with our jump? A Hulk jump is vastly different from Spidey. What other thematic jumping can we think of?
Did CoH have different jump animations? I thought it was just one and it seemed to work fine from character to character. I might be remembering wrong though.

Just the one.

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I think ninja run and beast

I think ninja run and beast run both had different jump animations.

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Fantastic, especially that

Really fantastic, especially that secret extra video! Its wonderful to see that a solid foundation for the AB has been completed (or damn near close to completion). Hopefully that means that all processes to come for the AB can be implemented smoothly without to much headache!

Also, just an idea, would love to see biweekly updates showing off new costume pieces or capes that the design team has come up with. Who knows, it might even spark an idea for a hero/villian!

Huckleberry wrote:

The animation looks pretty fluid. The way the legs go into the buttocks in the running animation is seamless. I'd like a bit more change in the geometry of the gluteus maximus, but it doesn't just clip in like two different peices intersecting either, so good.
The slight dip in the shoulders as weight is shifted during the run speaks of strength and determination. I think you captured that subtlety wonderfully.

+1
Completely agree! Kept replaying that part from 2:23 - 2:48, just to see the animation of him running around and jumping. It expresses so much power, just imagine if he was carrying a sword... or better yet, a giant flaming herring!! Not sure about you, but if I saw someone running at me like that, I would turn tail saying f*** this!

But seriously, this is wonderful and I can't wait to see what the team comes up with next. I know a game like this takes time and patience to get right, so keep up the great work! You got my support 110%

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Nyxz wrote:
Nyxz wrote:

harpospoke wrote:
Nyxz wrote:
desviper wrote:
I know we're focusing on the costume, but the jump has a very spiderman-y feel to it, I don't know how sure I am about it.
What if they allow us to choose what animation goes with our jump? A Hulk jump is vastly different from Spidey. What other thematic jumping can we think of?
Did CoH have different jump animations? I thought it was just one and it seemed to work fine from character to character. I might be remembering wrong though.

Just the one.

I believe the 'huge' body type had its own jump animation, as well.

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I'd like to make one more UI

I'd like to make one more UI-related request: may we please have a Random button for each individual costume part?

Sometimes in the old game I had only a partial concept, like she will be wearing power armour, or he will be tall in long robes, and I'd often choose some of the remaining parts randomly till I got something that fit. Sometimes that random choice would actually reveal a new aspect of my character, like the time I randomly got the face with the sewed-shut eyes and mouth, which became a key element of his character in all further incarnations.

The old game had an overall Random button for creating grotesque eyesores, but if one wanted to select just one item randomly, it meant opening that drop-down list and counting all the items, then finding the dice to match that selection -- then counting through the items again when a number was rolled. Having a Random button for each item would streamline this process immensely.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Special Super Secret Sauce

Special Super Secret Sauce Supplemental video was awesome.

I'm picky about movement, and this--while I know not the final form of movement in the game and not yet perfect--is already fluid, solid, and pleasingly heroic.

Go, team, go!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

It looks like you have a hundred sliders for the shape of the model! That is some serious tweaking! How many of those do you plan on giving over to the player during customization?

Give them all to the player; that way, they'll have an additional six months to get the actual game developed, because people will be stuck in the character creator tweaking their appearance for that long...

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And here I thought we'd all

And here I thought we'd all be mucking about in the Avatar Builder for the entire run of the game ...


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srmalloy wrote:
srmalloy wrote:

Give them all to the player; that way, they'll have an additional six months to get the actual game developed, because people will be stuck in the character creator tweaking their appearance for that long...

Redlynne wrote:

And here I thought we'd all be mucking about in the Avatar Builder for the entire run of the game ...

I could probably find a way to "muck" around in the Avatar Builder for six months even if they only gave us a dozen sliders to work with. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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There are certain sliders

There are certain sliders that will be combined, and certain sliders (About 10?) that are actually not for player use per se - someone noticed something in the video that we did in preparation for something _else_ one day.
But by and large, excepting those that are for a mysterious later possibility, they'll all be in your hands.

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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

There are certain sliders that will be combined, and certain sliders (About 10?) that are actually not for player use per se - someone noticed something in the video that we did in preparation for something _else_ one day.
But by and large, excepting those that are for a mysterious later possibility, they'll all be in your hands.

I HAVE THE SLIDERSSSS!!!!

Lothic wrote:

I could probably find a way to "muck" around in the Avatar Builder for six months even if they only gave us a dozen sliders to work with. ;)

This looks like it will be no trouble at all with all those options! I can't wait til the AB is out and we can share our creations! :D

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I'm just gonna post this

I'm just gonna post this comment here since I didn't get a single reply on the YouTube video...

I really LOVE how well the costumes and animations are coming along thus far, but I do have one complaint. The character seems to run with a wide stance- his feet are further apart than how most people run, and his arms seem to swing a little further out from his body. In all honestly, it looks like he's supposed to be running in a heavy suit of armor. Is this intentional so you don't have to adjust the animation for bulkier costume pieces, or will this be smoothed over for lither characters in the future?

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A little of both. Animation,

A little of both. Animation, it turns out, is really hard.

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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

A little of both. Animation, it turns out, is really hard.

I can relate. I've 3D-animated for fun in the not-too-distant past, and making realistic motions is no walk in the park! I can't fault you guys if the run cycle isn't perfect. :p

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Are you using motion capture?

Are you using motion capture?

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I doubt it. Doesn't Mo-cap

I doubt it. Doesn't Mo-cap take a studio?

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Not anymore. But even if it

Not anymore. But even if it did there are a lot of places you can rent time in a professional mo-cap studio. Here is the first one in a quick google search:
http://www.ecuad.ca/academics/faculties-and-departments/research-area/ids-motion-capture-studio.

Heck, MwM might even be able to contact the guys at rooster teeth and maybe use theirs for less than a big studio would charge.

There are also many libraries of mo-cap animations which could be bought and adjusted to fit what they want (which is what happens even in custom mo-cap, lots of adjusting). You can even find a bunch of BHV's for free like right here:
http://mocap.cs.cmu.edu/

Old school animation is labor intensive and the result is often sub-par to todays standards. I would be very disappointed if that was the route they took.

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I've seen some people use a

I've seen some people use a gen2 kinects to make a "quick and dirty" mocap system. That is enough to get the course movements right and then refine the animation. I've also seen some demos of the intel realsense (project tango) cameras used for a similar purpose. It's getting cheaper all the time. I think you'll always need some sort of studio to make it easy and clean to do mocap but for quick approximations it's easier to do those in an apartment now than in the past. I think this was one of their stretch goals to get a mocap system but...that may have been a lot more work too.

kinect based mocap - https://www.engadget.com/2015/03/08/using-the-kinect-for-motion-capture/

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