Discuss: What You Know About: the Deadly 7

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Shadow Elusive
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Discuss: What You Know About: the Deadly 7

Interesting group, this one. And no, we can't release videos every two weeks :)

Read the update here: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/what-you-know-about-deadly-7

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What!? No video? :p

What!? No video? :p

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So, apparently, we know

So, apparently, we know Nothing about the 'Deadly 7' and you're just taunting us about it.

Be Well!
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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

What!? No video? :p

someone seems excited.. and wants to yell "Moaaaahhhhhhhrrr!" ;)

Promo:
"They are more fantastic than the Fant4stic Four."
"They are more hateful than the H8ful Eight!"
"They .... insert yours here ...."
;)

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Sounds interesting, can we

Sounds interesting, can we get some concept art? My wife will make chocolate chip cookies if you do. From scratch. still warm and gooey from the oven.

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So, Liege says his villain

So, Liege says his villain team is the villainyest. How many leaders of how many other villain teams say the same?

*starts making lists and plans to set these teams at each other's throats, then arrest the survivors. The big problem would be containing the collateral damage...* ^_^

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I like the idea of the Aspire

I like the idea of the Aspire character. Assuming he/she/it, can copy the powers of individual(s) it is reminiscent of the Mirror self mission arc. https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mirror_Self. You fought a boss version of yourself and each time it was a bit more powerful. One of my favorites arcs.

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Great names, great powers! I

Great names, great powers! I particularly like "Abysm". I wonder if these seven get some inspiration from the Slaughterhouse Nine (albeit PG-13).

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True, they can't realease

True, they can't realease videos every two weeks... but every four, it's ok :)
And of course, they will send before the end of the week some artwork about the famous Deadly Seven !! (dream ON *)

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For me the most exciting part

For me the most exciting part of this update are the powers the Deadly 7 possess, since those powers will have to be available in game if they're going to be NPCs in the game. They do sound like an interesting bunch!

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I'm usually really excited

I'm usually really excited when there's a new update, but this one, not so much, I'm sorry to say. Honestly, this was the first one that left me kind of disappointed, and in more ways than one.

Firstly, it was way too short. If that's all you've got, save it for a future update when you can give us some more details.

Second, no art. Seriously? What this says to me is "We agreed that these characters will appear in the game, and that's as far as we've gotten on that. We still don't know what they look like."

Third, is it just me, or are all the good names taken? Not one character has "-er" at the end of their name, nor "The" in front of it, like The Punisher or the The Fixer, or The Melter. There are no Doctor or Captain or Mister anythings anymore. There are no characters with names ending in the letter "o", like Despero, Sinestro, and Magneto. Instead everyone's got some really abstract, one word name, like Covet or Aspire, both of which, to me, usually sound more like stripper stage names than villains. I miss the alliteration of people like Doctor Doom and The Green Goblin and the rhyme of Mr. Sinister and Doc Ock.

Maybe I'm just getting old...

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I'm usually really excited when there's a new update, but this one, not so much, I'm sorry to say. Honestly, this was the first one that left me kind of disappointed, and in more ways than one.
Firstly, it was way too short. If that's all you've got, save it for a future update when you can give us some more details.
Second, no art. Seriously? What this says to me is "We agreed that these characters will appear in the game, and that's as far as we've gotten on that. We still don't know what they look like."
Third, is it just me, or are all the good names taken? Not one character has "-er" at the end of their name, nor "The" in front of it, like The Punisher or the The Fixer, or The Melter. There are no Doctor or Captain or Mister anythings anymore. There are no characters with names ending in the letter "o", like Despero, Sinestro, and Magneto. Instead everyone's got some really abstract, one word name, like Covet or Aspire, both of which, to me, usually sound more like stripper stage names than villains. I miss the alliteration of people like Doctor Doom and The Green Goblin and the rhyme of Mr. Sinister and Doc Ock.
Maybe I'm just getting old...

Well, Dark Fez, has the right of it. This short article is a foreshadowing. It was our Lore/Composition team's turn this week to be showcased but a lot of their really good stuff can't be made public due to problems with spoilers. But they are mostly a text based group so no pictures or other eye candy sadly. We have a few exciting things going on elsewhere but how much we can reveal at this stage is going to require some thought. But I think we can have things to show when that time comes. Heck, the last character in the bunch has me really interested.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I'm usually really excited when there's a new update, but this one, not so much, I'm sorry to say. Honestly, this was the first one that left me kind of disappointed, and in more ways than one.
Firstly, it was way too short. If that's all you've got, save it for a future update when you can give us some more details.
Second, no art. Seriously? What this says to me is "We agreed that these characters will appear in the game, and that's as far as we've gotten on that. We still don't know what they look like."
Third, is it just me, or are all the good names taken? Not one character has "-er" at the end of their name, nor "The" in front of it, like The Punisher or the The Fixer, or The Melter. There are no Doctor or Captain or Mister anythings anymore. There are no characters with names ending in the letter "o", like Despero, Sinestro, and Magneto. Instead everyone's got some really abstract, one word name, like Covet or Aspire, both of which, to me, usually sound more like stripper stage names than villains. I miss the alliteration of people like Doctor Doom and The Green Goblin and the rhyme of Mr. Sinister and Doc Ock.
Maybe I'm just getting old...

Got to agree, somewhat. (Especially the getting old part) I have not really been inspired so far by the character names we've seen, Villains or Heroes. That being said, I sometimes cringe when I see some old school characters in modern animated shows. Metallo, Sinestro, Amazo...the convention got a little stale back in the 60s. Not to say that a clever new one couldn't be fun and refreshing. Or perhaps the lore could stand to see a CoT version of an older villain or hero 'coming out of retirement'. Who knows, maybe all the good names ARE taken.

I don't want to be a hater, I'm still anticipating this launch like no other game. And I know this is all volunteer and I don't expect professionals to work for free. But, yeah, I hope the writing in general kicks up a notch, too.

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I figured the names were that

I figured the names were that way because they go well together as a set. And the names could be worse. One of them could be named "Shazam." I think they deserve a "break." Last update was a pretty big deal.

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Idle sounds cool

Idle sounds cool

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Personally, I think those old

Personally, I think those old names sound cheesy as all hell, and that these one word ones rock. But I'm not Lore.

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I like the names and the

I like the names and the hints at power sets.

I got the sense they were somehow supposed to relate to the Seven Deadly Sins. If so, some of them are a little too abstract for me.

If not, then never mind. Well done.

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Third, is it just me, or are all the good names taken? Not one character has "-er" at the end of their name, nor "The" in front of it, like The Punisher or the The Fixer, or The Melter. There are no Doctor or Captain or Mister anythings anymore. There are no characters with names ending in the letter "o", like Despero, Sinestro, and Magneto. Instead everyone's got some really abstract, one word name, like Covet or Aspire, both of which, to me, usually sound more like stripper stage names than villains. I miss the alliteration of people like Doctor Doom and The Green Goblin and the rhyme of Mr. Sinister and Doc Ock.
Maybe I'm just getting old...

Shadow Elusive wrote:

Personally, I think those old names sound cheesy as all hell, and that these one word ones rock. But I'm not Lore.

I agree and disagree with both of you. The old names sound cheesy to some because they came first and established the genre, and so have been around and oft imitated. Just like some great old comedians seem cheesy now because they did it first and were so often imitated.

Those old names are classic like the first greats in any genre, though they can come to be seen as cheesy by familiarity and imitation--the very products of their greatness. And I usually stick to the classic old naming conventions for fun.

On the other hand, there is plenty of room for the new, and I also think those names, while less classic, they are intriguing and fit their concept.

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I have to admit, I was quite

I have to admit, I was quite disappointed as well. No matter if last update was big or small, why put something this uninformative and unpolished out? To me, it seems like they're losing a bit of momentum and are just pulling things from whatever crevice they can.

I want nothing more than the launch of this game, but maybe we all just need a bit more transparency to understand where development is at currently? You don't always need videos either (though those could use more polishing as well)... a couple pieces of concept art/drawings for these characters would've been amazing and would've shown more development (rather than a little sticky note on someone's desktop). I hate comparing the two, but I've seen more concept art from H&V than COT... and that depresses me.

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hillmm09 wrote:
hillmm09 wrote:

I have to admit, I was quite disappointed as well. No matter if last update was big or small, why put something this uninformative and unpolished out? To me, it seems like they're losing a bit of momentum and are just pulling things from whatever crevice they can.
I want nothing more than the launch of this game, but maybe we all just need a bit more transparency to understand where development is at currently? You don't always need videos either (though those could use more polishing as well)... a couple pieces of concept art/drawings for these characters would've been amazing and would've shown more development (rather than a little sticky note on someone's desktop). I hate comparing the two, but I've seen more concept art from H&V than COT... and that depresses me.

I understand, but I've been watching all three projects closely and you don't need to be depressed for CoT.

H&V has lots of art, but no significant start on an actual game.

CoT has a viable start on a genuinely good game, and eventually it will be time to "flesh it out" with art.

While art is important, you need a game to ever be able to use it.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Im so happy I wanna cry now.

Im so happy I wanna cry now. The one ability set that I have always wanted to see, and than mentioned in one of the older forum posts about Ability sets suggestions and you guys made it. Hurray to ABYSM!!!!

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Airhead wrote:
Airhead wrote:

Great names, great powers! I particularly like "Abysm". I wonder if these seven get some inspiration from the Slaughterhouse Nine (albeit PG-13).

I was getting Slaughterhouse 9 vibes as well. For example, Liege has a very similar power to one of Jack Slash's (Jack had a secondary mental manipulation power).

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An important premise of the

An important premise of the "What you know" series that people seem to have missed: They are CapeChaser pages, basically a wiki page. They are written by the public, and therefore only contain the information that would be known by Joe Civilian.

There is much more planned for this group, and all of our groups and individuals, but the remainder of the information is meant to be learned through gameplay.

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Interesting Info, and I like

Interesting Info, and I like the names. I'd love to see some art depicting them, and see what powers they have. Hopefully in the future.

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ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:

An important premise of the "What you know" series that people seem to have missed: They are CapeChaser pages, basically a wiki page. They are written by the public, and therefore only contain the information that would be known by Joe Civilian.
There is much more planned for this group, and all of our groups and individuals, but the remainder of the information is meant to be learned through gameplay.

I gotta admit, if there was one thing I missed from this update it was the CapeChaser comments section. Those can be as interesting as the wiki entry, itself, and you often make them quite humorous.

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I'm huge fan of very powerful

I'm huge fan of very powerful, small group number antagonist organizations like Akatsuki, Phantom Troupe, Gung Ho Guns, Juppongatana ETC and I was hoping for such a group to appear in game preferably in ambush like fashion and taking contracts from other villain groups for protection jobs and the like

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Nyktos wrote:
Nyktos wrote:

Airhead wrote:
Great names, great powers! I particularly like "Abysm". I wonder if these seven get some inspiration from the Slaughterhouse Nine (albeit PG-13).
I was getting Slaughterhouse 9 vibes as well. For example, Liege has a very similar power to one of Jack Slash's (Jack had a secondary mental manipulation power).

Yeah, I was definitely getting that feel myself. curious to see what'll be done with them.

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Each to his/her own, of

Each to his/her own, of course, but this is the kind of Lore update I really like. Just a brief peek into some of the people or things we'll meet when we get to Titan City. I also appreciate that MWM is being spoiler-cautious. A part of me kind of views any lore update as semi-spoiler anyway; I definitely don't want all the lore to be disseminated before launch, because I want to learn stuff as I play. (Annoying anyone I team with by stopping to actually read the text.) :-)

As for the names, I like them. I think Empyrean is onto something here: a lot of it may just be getting used to the names. And sometimes we get too used to the old conventions such that they become caricatures instead. I would guess that's partly why the team here avoided the -er and -o names. Note there were very few of this type of name in the signature characters in our old City either.

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Wait, are they meant to

Wait, are they meant to represent the 7 deadly sins?

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1: Liege, 2: “Pit” Mokas, a.k

1: Liege, 2: “Pit” Mokas, a.k.a. Beatdown, 3: Covet, 4: Aspire, 5: Abysm, 6: Modal, 7: Idle

Individually, I'd be cautious about facing Liege, Abysm, and Idle. The rest would depend on how well their teamwork AI operates

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HornetsNest wrote:
HornetsNest wrote:

1: Liege, 2: “Pit” Mokas, a.k.a. Beatdown, 3: Covet, 4: Aspire, 5: Abysm, 6: Modal, 7: Idle
Individually, I'd be cautious about facing Liege, Abysm, and Idle. The rest would depend on how well their teamwork AI operates

Hmm. Liege's effect depends on range, duration, and whether it can be affected by willpower (This is a super based game, of course it can). There's two ways he could go that would be very dangerous. The first is a charm effect, and the other is a dominate effect, to use DnD lingo. If it's a charm effect, that suggests he simply makes himself the most believable and trustworthy person in the world the to the victim's perceptions, and then implants suggestions on what to do to do them. Domination, as in puppeteering the body, is in some ways more dangerous and in some ways less; It means information is still secure, but he effectively has suicidal pawns at his disposal. The number of people he can affect at once and how long the aftereffects of his power last are important bits; domination suggests he needs to actively control the subject, but a charm effect could last for a long, long time, meaning he'd be able to push a domino effect if he did things right.

Either one also suggests that he can 'feel out' minds and recognize them the same way someone might recognize a smell, or a person's face. If that's the case, he may be able to influence people he's taken under his control before much easier the second or third go-round. If that's the case, he's likely obfuscating that aspect of his power as an ace in the hole. Dangerous, and heros and emergency personnel that have encountered before should be kept from engaging him, but act in an advisory capacity.

Beatdown? Need more information. We know he's a sadist, but we don't actually much information on the extent of his power - how hard is he to hurt? Does he regenerate? How large is he? Does he have a redundant biology that allows him to push past normal limits, rather than having actually having super strength (which would allo9w him to strength train much easier)? Is he evil superman? Error: More information necessary for valid threat assessment. What's curious is that we already know his civilian name; this suggests he has an aberrant physical nature that makes him easy to pick out in a crowd. Worth noting.

Covet is the one to be rated as the most potentially dangerous of the bunch, hinging on that ephemeral aspect of time. A tinker in their workshop is nigh unstoppable as long as they have warning, and one predicated on designing traps? Incredibly risky to assault. I suspect they like to set up massacres in 'artful' ways, and then trap the bodies in such a way that responders have to take days or weeks to take the bodies down, or else risk more deaths - and with enough prep time, even those fresh kills would be set up in particular ways to taunt and demoralize, enhancing the 'art' of previous pieces. Extremely dangerous, and likely has a variety of dead man switches for traps in various locations. Take alive if possible to evade the potential of such triggers. Hypnotism and/or paralysis suggested.

Aspire, much like Beatdown, is an unknown, and that's rather frustrating. Possibly being a power mirror, means he's likely a trump card to be played against other supers that the main team can't handle properly; big damn hero with the power to pick up buildings pops in? He could theoretically mimic the power and trade blows with the big guy until his teammates bail him out somehow - possibly locking down the opponent long enough for Liege to step in and get some control. Suggested takedown methods: non-inherent powers (such as technological supremacy), extreme range surprise assault, the use of a power he cannot copy or cannot use once copied (unlikely to work, assuming he can mimic the skill used for the abilities of the subject), or multiple attackers on assault at once.

Abysm is odd in that the description we have of him is unclear - what precisely is a Void-Space? Is it a sensory deprivation field that blocks wavelengths like light and sound? Is it a vacuum in a select area? Minitature black hole? A dimensional compression effect? We have next to no information on this power. If it's sensory deprivation (unlikely) then getting his allies to blanket-fire into the affected area is enough to dispose of most people, or he could simply hurt people inside himself assuming he can see; alternate methods of sight would be necessary to combat him. If he creates vacuums (Also unlikely), nonbreathing entities would be the primary threat to him, such as robots, golems, and mages with appropriate spells prepared. A miniature black hole would require that he have a capacity limit before gravity causes it to turn into a real black, so he would be unable to affect hyperdense materials; super tough beings would be the proper response. Dimensional compression would likely be nonviable in affecting living things directly, but makes him a space manipulator, which could cause a huge number of problems for basically anybody. More information is needed for a proper threat assessment.

Modal is a threat due to playing on the desires of the subject in question. Possibly a succubus or other desire demon? Best way to deal with Modal is to send in someone whose desires are completely ephemeral or are at peace with the universe. Someone so incredibly jaded that they immediately recognize a perfect world is a lie would also be acceptable, as sad as that idea is.

Idle is a speedster with a twist; slowing down time allows her to examine the battlefield and work out tactics at a vastly improved rate compared to her cohorts, and if she doesn't play tactician for her group, mostly likely she provides battlefield information for the one who does. Depending on how far she can slow time, she may be able to sit down and take a breather while a battle is going on, effectively giving her unlimited stamina to the perceptions of her enemies. This would suggest, however, that the 'faster' she gets, the less she can influence the world around her. The alternative is much much worse, and equally unlikely due to the problems with affecting beings on a temporal scale that slow. there's a question of what she can bring with her when she enters her altered time state - when carrying or holding too much, does it become impossible to enter her state of altered time, or does it simply make it harder? Can she bring other beings with her? If not, she could be subdued indefinitely by a mere tapeworm. Otherwise the best bet is to hit her with so much heavy stuff she can't break free; preferably sticky goop or rapid expansion distension foam. All the speed in the world doesn't help you when your hands are adhered to the floor.

A variety of team tactics are possible here, but without more information on the near-unknowns, we don't know the breadth and depth of these tactics. More information is necessary for an accurate threat assessment, but it's not difficult to list the threat of even those ones we know as very high. Current suggested way to remove them as a risk: High mobility sniper robot. That would be highly illegal though, so probably unavailable to heroes.

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There are more then 7 of them

There are more then 7 of them. Just ask the Wizard he's been beaten by 9 members of the Fantastic Four.

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Hey guys. I guess I can

Hey guys. I guess I can comment on some of the reactions here.
1. Names. Are the good ones taken? Well...kinda. Obviously we need to be as original as possible name-wise as well as look-wise (possibly more even) and the history of superheroes and heroes in general is a long, long list of characters. For the most part single word, simple names are more modern while names with titles (Mister, Captain, Miss, Lady) and words with extra endings (-o, -ite, -ette, and even -er) are more golden/silver age. Character names can say a lot about where they come from and their ideals accordingly. The Deadly 7's names are decidedly in the more modern vein. I assure you there are quite a few in the later category already written as well.

2. Slaughterhouse 9? Not familiar actually, but their name is pretty obvious even if how it fits is not. Yet... Another mystery for your gaming pleasure.

3. Powers. I for one think they are pretty cool, but I am a bit biased there.

I also wish there was more to be said/seen about all the NPC's, however something has to be saved for the game. Spoilers and all that. So, continue to have fun with the trickles of info we can eke out for you. Trust me we probably want to see them in action more than you guys!

p.s. Don't count on any of these guys being pushovers. ;).... or run-of-the-mill villains.

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As far as it goes, Revolution

As far as it goes, Revolution, the Slaughterhouse 9 are a villain group from the web serial Worm, by Wildbow. they're essentially a roving band of lunatics who see themselves as modern artists.

Quote:

The leader is Jack slash - his power is to cut things using bladed weapons (he prefers knives) at a distance, but he's also a consummate manipulator, which is how he keeps the group together.

Bonesaw is a 12 year old girl and the world's foremost biotinker, capable of horrific examples of the application of medicine. She is to medical technicians and surgeons what Iron Man is to engineers.

Crawler is a 'man' n a loose sense. He has adaptive regeneration - whenever you hit him, he comes back stronger and has developed an immunity to how you hit him. I'm pretty sure he crawled into an incinerator and sat there for an hour to get immunity to fire - that sort of thing. He's a pain junkie because pain means he was hurt, and being hurt means he'll get more powerful, and at this point he's only vaguely humanoid.

The Siberian is a naked woman covered in black and white stripes - completely capable of controlling how she interacts with physics which makes her entirely untouchable; nobody who's heard her talk has lived. She's also a cannibal and considers herself Bonesaw's older sister. When she's touching one of her allies, she can even spread her personal physics to them too.

Hatchet Face is a power canceller with the brute package - super strength and toughness, which basically makes him a horror movie monster ala Jason Voorhes.

Cherish is an empath with city-wide range and can induce extreme emotions, such as suicidal depression, anger, happiness, and a variety of other things.

Mannequin is a former hero named Alan Gramme. Once a hero known as Sphere, a Tinker who specialized in enclosed systems, a visit from a horrifically powerful telepath twisted his mind. He encased all his organs in parts and, in his grief, hates any scientists and tinkers who try to make the world better, hunting them down with the modular body he built for himself.

Burnscar is a pyrokinetic capable of teleporting through fires, one to another. Trick is, the more fire is around her, the more euphoric she gets, so setting everything on fire is her drug of choice.

Shatterbird has telekinesis limited to silicates - she can use them as relays to expand her power though, allowing her to affect entire cities as once. Imagine suddenly hearing a scream and then every electronic, every window in the city suddenly explodes.

As you can probably tell, there's some astonishing parallels here for something that was developed separately.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

Airhead
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Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:

As you can probably tell, there's some astonishing parallels here for something that was developed separately.

Reading the Nine's descriptions here gave me the shudders. Parts of the 1,650,000-word Worm superhero web serial are not for the squeamish.

"The illusion which exalts us is dearer to us than ten thousand truths." - Pushkin
"One piece of flair is all I need." - Sister Silicon

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The true question is : man or

The true question is : man or woman?

Liege?
Beatdown : StrongMAN
Covet?
Aspire?
Abysm?
Modal seems to be an "Entity"
Idle : Woman (her victims)

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This is just me talking, so

This is just me talking, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, but I think the one-word names should be reserved for the REALLY powerful, unique, "beyond powerful" type characters, like Galactus, Darkseid, Thanos, etc. These are the larger-than-life characters, like in real life Madonna and Oprah and Cher. As there's only ever ONE Madonna, and there's only ever ONE Thanos. Clearly, having that name adds some gravitas to the character's reputation. That character is now the one and only owner of their single word name, and nobody else EVER gets to use it in any way. So the drawback there is that you've expended a whole word that might have shown up in other places on just one character. That's okay if you only do it sparingly, and only for the really powerful characters, who we'd expect there to be few of. So since you're only going to have a few "big bads" like that, you don't waste a lot of creative real estate that might otherwise be able to stretch out a little more than just one guy.

Let me explain what I mean by that. In the Spider-Man universe, you wouldn't want to call any one character "Spider" or even "The Spider". If anything, you'd call him "The Scarlet Spider" or "The Steel Spider" because you can get more mileage out of something as ubiquitous as spiders than just one guy. Calling one guy "The Spider" makes it sound to the fans like "the one and only guy named 'Spider' you're ever going to have", calling him "The Steel Spider" makes you wonder if there are more Steel animals coming, or if there are going to be Spiders made of other materials somewhere that we haven't met. Is there a Gold Spider? Is there a Steel Scorpion? I'm already imagining those things. Even the name Spider-Man works in the sense that there could now be a Spider-Woman (or two), a Spider-Boy, a Spider-Girl, a Spider-Bot, etc.

So using the short, one word names is good when it's done for added weight to a really powerful character, but if it shows up all over the place, it cheapens the intended gravitas effect by watering it down to being really common (like the old adage that one Ninja is a badass, but a dozen of them are definitely getting their butts kicked by one hero, no problem). Second, you burn a lot of words that can't show up in other names now when you give that many characters one-word names.

But as I said, that's just me.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Ysangard wrote:
Ysangard wrote:

The true question is : man or woman?
Liege?
Beatdown : StrongMAN
Covet?
Aspire?
Abysm?
Modal seems to be an "Entity"
Idle : Woman (her victims)

In order:
Male
Male
Female
Female
Male
???? (seems to prefer a female slant, however)
Female
So evenly split-ish with a feminine lean.

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revolution
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Radiac: I get where your

Radiac: I get where your coming from. I don't think many of these names would lend themselves to other connotations, however. Idle, Liege and Modal possibly. Either way though, there are plenty of more multi-syllable named heroes and villains coming. CoT has quite a back history shaping up with many golden age type heroes and villains used in backstories and even some still around in the present day city. I'm sure you will be happy with quite a few of the NPC's names in the near future.

Not to mention the dynasties passed down by many of those past heroes...;)

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These one-word names still

These one-word names still leave room for imitators. There'd be Idle's son, Eric. Modal's successor could be Next Top Modal. And after Liege's downfall you'd have... Felofa Liege.

"The illusion which exalts us is dearer to us than ten thousand truths." - Pushkin
"One piece of flair is all I need." - Sister Silicon