All RPGs looking for "balance" in theyr game, but in a super heroe RPG i dont like balance, because have power that is more morfull than others i dont like see superman and robin have same power and differ only in names. Hulk is more powerfull than capt america, Spectre is more powerfull than hulk. A power need represent a power, not only a diferent name from another power. What i want say is that i belive that certains powers need be more powerfull than another, mainly that is a super heroe RPG this diference no need be great but i belive that need have.
Include ps 4 to have this game.
Sat, 03/26/2016 - 20:30
#1
Only 2 thinks i want of this game
So you're saying that, just because I prefer staff fighting over super strength, my toon is supposed to suck in comparisson to yours?
What if it's a magical, kryptonite laced, electrified Nth Metal staff? Can my Robin then beat your Superman? And if so, who is to say that i can't have one?
Quite honestly, your request is on par with Mighty Paladin's to ban all Villain players to another server, so he doesn't have to aknowledge our existence.
The imbalance you propose is fine in a comic or maybe in a single player game where your choice of character could set a different difficulty.
But it won't work in a multiplayer game... as everybody would play Superman or the Spectre because picking anyone else would mean they couldn't compete. No matter how much they'd prefer those other characters.
Look at it this way, with the wide difference in powerlevels you want, the devs would have to make a whole lot of different games or at least widely differing missions as the same mooks that prove a challenge to Robin wouldn't even faze Supes. And likewise those who could be a challenge to Superman would easily splatter Robin over the next wall. So the players of Superman and Robin had no reason at all to play the same content. Godmode for one; A lesson in futility for the other.
Not to mention that it would make PvP close to impossible Team 1: Superman vs. Team 2: 30 Robins... and Team 1 would still win.
There will obviously be differences between the ATs: A Stalwart will easily out-tank a Guardian, but won't stand a chance against an Enforcer when it comes to dps etc. Isn't that enough?
tl, dr: Bad Idea
As for the PS4 port: Seems unlikely at this point. Maybe in the future, who knows...
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_HUdf89hI8]Send out your signal, call in your hero
I kidnapped his lady, now his power's are zero.
[/url]
There is an idea of Perfect Imbalance.
https://youtu.be/e31OSVZF77w
-------------------------------------------
Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
I don't really have an extreme problem with there being "Superman" characters versus "Robin" characters in terms of raw power output (DPS?) as long I can be just as successful and have as much fun (maybe different kind?) playing either of them. For instance back in CoH Controllers played very differently than Scrappers but I don't honestly remember it being a case where players universally only played one of those ATs over the other. The mix might not have been 50/50 but it certainly wasn't 95/5 either.
The real issue is that some players only equate "fastest speed of play" with "best". This is why many people think maximum DPS output is the only factor when choosing character type. There's nothing wrong with that play style, it's just that amazingly enough some people don't actually care about playing quickly and/or leveling up ASAP. If you're one of those people then playing an AT that's NOT focused on maximum DPS output can be fun for you regardless.
Perhaps that's where CoT can apply the Perfect Imbalance principal. If you'll remember CoH did go through various "Flavor Of The Month" character builds which could be said was Perfect Imbalance in action. Hopefully CoT can capture that same degree of workable imbalance.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
A city orf Heroes example of Perfect Imbalance or at least, a Workable one, was my Dark Dark Scrapper.
I was in one of the PVP zones and my healing/recovery was quite fast. Went against a Mastermind and I think a brute. Thought they were laying down the pain I was healing fast enough that they couldn't put me down. Then came an Ice Dominator and she was the reason I went down.
My Street Justice/Will Power brute was nearly unstoppable until he ran into toxic damage.
COX did do it right were each set was powerful, and each set had a weakness.
-------------------------------------------
Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
as noted above, I think that CoH did indeed have the "perfect imbalance" going on with it. no singular class was the 'end all be all' and each had its strengths and pit-falls. it came down to personal play style and which class a player most identified with. then within each of the classes there were the various powers and they all could play differently, some of which were more "powerful" than the others but even this came down to experience for the most part.
the idea of going so far imbalanced, using the Superman vs Robin example...well, I think that would be a poor choice. the spread in power/ability is so great that I would guarantee the numbers of Supermen to Robin would be waaaay outta wack in favor of Superman.
I like the idea of the perfect imbalance and would assume that this is the route that the MWM is going to run down when "balancing" the game...X class could be beat by Y class which could be beat by Z class which can beat class X (for example). thus...while a class may be good at beating X classes they are still vulnerable to at least one class. I would also assume that this is the route that most games actually try to adopt...although the success of achieving this may vary from game to game.
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
And any class could be beaten by another class, if they were played well.
Besides, Robin at maximum level (ie Batman) can beat Superman handily.
Be Well!
Fireheart
When talking about these kinds of game theory issues it's sometimes useful to bring up what might considered "worse case scenarios" or "extreme hyperbolic examples" that everyone can instantly relate to and compare against. While I'm sure everyone could come up with their own examples of what would be universally accepted as a totally unbalanced comic book match-up going with the quick "Superman vs Robin" is good enough for the purposes of this conversation.
For what it's worth I agree that CoT ought to do its best to make sure that no one character class is so much better than another in any/all situations that no one would ever want to pick the lesser class. That would be an obvious case of taking Perfect Imbalance too far.
I'm sure there's a fancier name for this but I call it the classic "rock-paper-scissors" concept. As you pointed out many games including CoH used this guiding principle either consciously or unconsciously to achieve a form of Perfect Imbalance. With this you can have Superman type characters in a game (which can even be stronger than most everyone else in most situations) as long as those characters have a corresponding weakness represented by another character class. The trick then becomes adjusting just how strong the given "rock" class is to the given "scissor" class and how weak it is to the given "paper" class as well making sure each of those can function not only against each other head-to-head (PvP) but also individually (PvE).
I agree that despite a strict "rock-paper-scissors" form of class balance that very experienced players should be able to have a chance to "break" that framework and manage to have a "paper" type character beat a "scissor" type character on relatively rare, ideal occasions. Even Robin may be lucky enough to be carrying some Kryptonite just when he needs it. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
[SUPERMAN V BATMAN PLOT-SPOILER!!!]
Well, I mean, in the comics (and recent movie) heroes like Batman can beat heroes like Superman due to plot devices such as prep time and special weaknesses, not just in a spontaneous standup fight. In S v B look what happened when Superman ambushed Batman. No chance in the world for Batman. But then, the rallying cry of all Batman fans--PREP TIME!!!
[END PLOT-SPOILER]
So, in the format of an MMORPG where you need some semblance of balance at least in the form of perfect imbalance, you just have to give the Devs a break by using your imagination to "write in" how the street level beats a god. Or not, and just not like it. But I'm not sure the Devs have much choice.
I'm an old-school comics fan and a traditionalist when it comes to staying true to comics in movies and games, but I see the necessity of balanced imbalance for the game to be not only successful, but to be good. I mean, who wants to be a weak hero?
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Sure when you're writing a fixed, static story it's easy to feature "overpowered characters" because if the story's well written those characters will "work" in that setting. But in a dynamic game the main goal needs to be overall playablity. Regardless of what you would define as being a "strong" or "weak" character in a game as long as you can successfully PLAY either of them then it's fine.
As I implied earlier most of the time maximal DPS output is usually taken to be the measure of what's considered a strong character in a MMORPG. But when you think about it if that were universally the case then no one would ever play "healers" or "buff/debuffers" or the like.
So instead of saying "no one wants to play weak characters" I think you really need to say "no one wants to play unplayable characters". Case in point some people consider it a challenge to take a so-called weak class and build it into an unexpected powerhouse. Again it all comes down to how you choose to define "strong" and "weak" in a game setting.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
True. Weak was not a good choice of wording and your explanation was closer to what I meant. Funny, I personally tend to think of toughness first--with just enough DPS to get the job done--when I think of "strength" in games, so further clarification was needed :).
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
No worries - besides you proved my point anyway. The fact that you personally consider "toughness" as the first/main factor of your definition of game character "strength" instead of DPS output only goes to show there are many definitions of what "strong" means in a MMORPG setting.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I play rpgs for a lng time.
We already have unbalance in per exemple most famous RPG ever, ADd . Have class more powerfull exemple mage mainly with prestige in red wizard of thay, a rogue dont have chance, but have more player that play with rogue than mage because is more nice. I against unbalance in PVP but PVE is good for a true RPG.
Of course, at low levels in AD&D, it's the mage that has no chance. The Rogue can take the damage of the one Magic Missile spell, then start dishing it out while the mage is limited to a weapon he can barely use. Even worse if you compare mage to fighter.
Later editions have at least partially addressed both imbalances.
And as Baronet Taltos advises us, "No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style."
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
.
Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Pretty much nothing could beat my MM 1 on 1, and certainly not if I pulled out Gang War. But I had one huge Achilles' heel, often used in PvP.
The MM's toughness is based on bodyguard mode -- otherwise they are literally the squishiest, with fewer points than blasters. This is "defensive follow" state for minions, upside, they each take 1 share of damage to you, while you take 2. This means with 6 pets, you take 2 to their 6, so presto, scrapper max 75% defense before anything else.
Downside: you couldn't send pets to attack or you'd lose bodyguard mode. You had to let them react to attacks of their own AI free will.
But tbey also had to be within 40 feet of you. So...tp foe and you are nude and squishy and go down real freakin' fast. TPers often boosted their tp foe power for both range and to hit (or whatever).
Ya. 5 of 6 times I would die before I could get back to my pets (or they, me). Often the TP was paired with a movement slow of some type.
__________________
[IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll38/Gnurl/a72b7fba-8da2-4ac8-8e18-0f8453f7d3ee_zpscc5b27b5.jpg[/IMG]
The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.
Pretty much nothing could beat my MM 1 on 1, and certainly not if I pulled out Gang War. But I had one huge Achilles' heel, often used in PvP.
The MM's toughness is based on bodyguard mode -- otherwise they are literally the squishiest, with fewer points than blasters. This is "defensive follow" state for minions, upside, they each take 1 share of damage to you, while you take 2. This means with 6 pets, you take 2 to their 6, so presto, equivalent to scrapper max 75% defense before anything else (as long as the pets lived anyway.)
Downside: you couldn't send pets to attack or you'd lose bodyguard mode. You had to let them react to attacks of their own AI free will.
But they also had to be within 40 feet of you. So...tp foe and you are nude and squishy and go down real freakin' fast. TPers often boosted their tp foe power for both range and to hit (or whatever).
Ya. 5 of 6 times I would die before I could get back to my pets (or they, me). Often the TP was paired with a movement slow of some type.
__________________
[IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll38/Gnurl/a72b7fba-8da2-4ac8-8e18-0f8453f7d3ee_zpscc5b27b5.jpg[/IMG]
The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.