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Phararri
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Nyktos wrote:
Nyktos wrote:

Phararri wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Imagine if they did everything sequentially, if they were doing that and they released the Avatar Builder, then we would complain cause we know that nothing else had been done yet.

I spend many minutes on creators, I would not mind one bit, lol.
the creator is like 40% of the game for me, if that is what you are referring to, the character creator.
The creator would have been a great way to bring in CoH, DCUO, Marvel 2015, CO, and other players.I don't know squat about development, not sure if one a prioritize a creator over other aspects, but the standalone creator could have been a great tool gain potential players. Most spend hours in the creator anyway, so tons of MMO fans will be playing around on that bad boy.

I would certainly spend an absurd amount of time on it. I am pretty sure many other people on these forums would too.
Someone out there would still find a reason to complain though. I have seen people complain about more mundane things before

Very true, folks will complain about anything. I believe they would be a very small percentage of the population.

People find things to complain about, that is just the way it is.

"Leopard head!? Why did you not give us Cougar heads......"

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

Zerohour
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

I'm going to chalk this up in the "DUH!" category simply because of how overwhelmingly obvious it is. Players want the Avatar Builder. The Developers want the Avatar Builder too! EVERYBODY wants the Avatar Builder! This is not a contested statement. This is TRUE.
The fact that the Development Team recognizes this is not a knock against them. If anything, it's a signal of basic minimum level competency.

You're one of the forum posters I don't typically respond to because you're very aggressive and a little too fanboy for me. I get a very strong sense of entitlement from you. You talk down to people more than I like, and I think you feel that because you've been around a while that gives you the right to do so. Having said that, I'm going to bite anyways. The "DUH!" comment is unnecessary because to me that implies you think I'm making an idiotic statement. The reason that I've made the avatar builder a point in my argument is because it's something that has been promised as a priority on multiple forums and multiple websites by different people involved in the project. We keep getting "its around the corner", but that corner never comes. And people like you are far too willing to accept the muddled excuses dripping with ambiguous context like "looking to be ready by X date". So when that time comes and goes and people get upset, you can throw on your sword and shield shouting "they didn't say it WILL be, they said LOOKING TO be. Stop being entitled!!!". If the developers don't feel any real sense of accountability from the people that are funding them, we are all still going to be sitting here this time next year, waiting for the next excuse as to why we don't have the avatar builder.

Redlynne wrote:

You say that as if MWM has delivered OTHER application products that you can download and USE right now. By my count, there are exactly ZERO such products available (and I even counted them all twice!).
So, when you say "they promised to deliver X first!" ... all I have to do is point out that they haven't "delivered" anything else PLAYABLE before delivering on X as promised.

And part of that problem is because they are being sidetracked by making sure each and every person under the sun with every bloody visual and audio problem you can think of is being accommodated to. Companies with MILLIONS of dollars behind them don't worry about things like this, especially not at first.

Redlynne wrote:

Wow. Just wow.
Entitled much?

There's nothing entitled about explaining what a priority means. I'm simply pointing out what was said and how it applies to it therefore being a priority.

Redlynne wrote:

Let's just say I'm glad you're not solicited for input on what to put on the production schedule (and when). I mean, it sounds like you're expecting things to get done SEQUENTIALLY rather than in PARALLEL ... and therefore if ANY work gets done on ANYTHING ELSE other than what YOU want NAO!!!! it can only be because MWM haven't got their priorities right and they're breaking their promises.

You're imposing a feeling of entitlement on my part when there isn't one. It's not just what I want. Many, many other people want the same thing. And they aren't as willing to drink the kool-aid as you are. I understand the concept of game building, thanks. Just like I know that movies typically aren't shot beginning-middle-end. But it's been said before that once the avatar builder is working as it should, it means that they can take that and apply it to other areas of the game. We aren't even seeing proper male and female body casts yet, to say nothing of costume pieces. And you spelled "now" wrong. Yikes!

Redlynne wrote:

Um ... I'm going to put this mildly. You ready?
You've got it all wrong.
To be more specific, you are making an error of interpretation of the available evidence, rather than an error in selecting the evidence you cite in support of your argument. You are suffering from the ... bias, shall we say ... of "a certain point of view" ...

If by "error of interpretation" you mean that when I read "our costume creator should be ready before Christmas 2014" I shouldn't actually expect that? Or do you think that the word "should" clearly means that it covers them a whole extra year (and from the looks of things, possibly more) to come through on that statement?

Regardless, it's due time for a state of the game update. I don't see why that's a huge ask. And I also don't see how it could possibly take away THAT much time from game development to do it either.

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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Actually, the guidance we are

Actually, the guidance we are using to approach accessibility is quite limited. We have a dedicated accessibility team that was started the week after the update that detailed our plans was put up, and it consists of myself - a trained educator with a focus on those with extraordinary needs, as well as a neuroscientist and others with high amounts of experience with the subject. We're not just accounting for the particulars of various audio-visual issues, we're also looking at the cognitive and motor issues that could impact a person's ability to play. And since our other roles in addition to forming this team span all areas of development, the cost in terms of time, money and effort is actually highly negligible

Most of the capacity for the details that we've decided are necessary actually existed within the Unreal 4 engine in the first place, so it's really as simple as making sure that it is possible for the player to flip the switch as opposed to waiting for a signal from an administrator/GM. There are many reasons why larger development studios don't worry about these things, and the first and foremost is that most of the developers *in* those studios honestly do not have a daily interaction with individuals who have these issues. We're not wasting time in putting effort into minimizing their impact on the game and its world, we're actually saving time.

As an example, there are a number of us who are colorblind whom are actually involved in populating the maps with objects, it was necessary for us to solve that particular issue long before we ever had a map to work with. If we didn't ensure that the objects they work with were capable of being easily distinguished, you'd end up with a lower quality map than would otherwise be achievable.

So it really boils down to the reality that for many of the people on the development team, accounting for accessibility is not a priority at all - it is a necessity.

It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.

Business Director

Lin Chiao Feng
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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

The reason that I've made the avatar builder a point in my argument is because it's something that has been promised as a priority on multiple forums and multiple websites by different people involved in the project.

We're all completely clear on this.

Zerohour wrote:

We keep getting "its around the corner", but that corner never comes.

Really? I've seen the devs mention that it's the first thing they plan to ship. How does that equal "right around the corner"?

Zerohour wrote:

If the developers don't feel any real sense of accountability from the people that are funding them, we are all still going to be sitting here this time next year, waiting for the next excuse as to why we don't have the avatar builder.

There's an old saying in the military that no plan survives first contact. And while it is true that the avatar builder wasn't available by the date on the Kickstarter, there's a lot of evidence against the notion that this team is not accountable. If this were a normal, investor-backed setup, you'd be able to see more of what's going on, covered by NDA, and there would be fewer investors (read: potential leaks to an increasingly hostile gaming press) to deal with.

But MWM isn't put together like that. Their funding's more public, they have far more investors with smaller contributions, and as a result things have to work differently. The problem of "demonstrated functionality becomes locked in and can harm the product" is a much bigger risk here. So, no, they're not going to open their books to us like that.

Zerohour wrote:

And part of that problem is because they are being sidetracked by making sure each and every person under the sun with every bloody visual and audio problem you can think of is being accommodated to.

As someone who will probably never be sure that what they hear is real for the rest of their life, I acknowledge that I feel your boot planted firmly on my ass in a desperate attempt at triage. Unfortunately, as explained already, it does you no good.

Zerohour wrote:

Companies with MILLIONS of dollars behind them don't worry about things like this, especially not at first.

Which is why their products suck at it, even in the end when they try to duct-tape something on before they ship anyway.

Zerohour wrote:

You're imposing a feeling of entitlement on my part when there isn't one.

No, there's a clear sense of entitlement. But there should be! You paid money into the Kickstarter and don't want to see it go up in smoke. We get that. That's a perfectly valid reason to feel entitled.

It doesn't earn you the right to call the shots.

Zerohour wrote:

Many, many other people want the same thing.

Yep. And we're patient. Rome wasn't sacked in a day.

Zerohour wrote:

And they aren't as willing to drink the kool-aid as you are. I understand the concept of game building, thanks.

Your understanding of development seems to be focused on the logistics of small, indie development groups with a small (single digits, usually) number of developers. I'm pretty sure MWM doesn't fit that mold. Which is why it deals with things like "not all developers are good at all things, so put them on things they're good at even if they're not critical path tasks" and "adding developers late in a project just makes it later".

Zerohour wrote:

Regardless, it's due time for a state of the game update. I don't see why that's a huge ask. And I also don't see how it could possibly take away THAT much time from game development to do it either.

I'll note that you did not specify a required level of detail in your demand. So it's highly likely that any such update will be deemed insufficient and spawn another ragequit-worthy rant. Therefore, please provide a list of demanded status items, numbered so we don't have to keep typing them out.

P.S. If you feel your investment is truly at risk, please tell us what level you've invested at and the amount. Maybe one of us "kool-aid drinkers" could just buy your share out and you won't need to worry about it any more.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

And while it is true that the avatar builder wasn't available by the date on the Kickstarter, there's a lot of evidence against the notion that this team is not accountable.

Does anyone really expect Kickstarter projects, especially ones on this scale, to meet those dates? The Kickstarter dates were never realistic. I suppose one could lean on the point that they are estimated delivery dates, but my guess is that Kickstarter limits how far in the future the delivery date can be set.

Going by the KS delivery dates, people should have been playing Star Citizen for about a year, now. I invite anyone unduly concerned about accountability to go join Derek Smart's crusade against Chris Roberts.

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Zerohour
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Honestly, there are too many

Honestly, there are too many white knights here to try and have a realistic conversation about things. Unfortunately I'm not one to generally walk away from a debate so here we go.

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Really? I've seen the devs mention that it's the first thing they plan to ship. How does that equal "right around the corner"?

I feel like you're arguing something here, but I'm not clear on what that is. You're actually helping prove my point from earlier, so thank you.

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

There's an old saying in the military that no plan survives first contact. And while it is true that the avatar builder wasn't available by the date on the Kickstarter, there's a lot of evidence against the notion that this team is not accountable.

Please, point me to this evidence. Are you talking about the snarky posts that certain devs put up when questions get a little too hard? Or maybe the development updates or 2015-quality videos that only get offered after enough people complain about them? Or perhaps all you need to feel satisfied are the mountains of lore they churn out?

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

As someone who will probably never be sure that what they hear is real for the rest of their life, I acknowledge that I feel your boot planted firmly on my ass in a desperate attempt at triage. Unfortunately, as explained already, it does you no good.

I don't really understand your reference here. I can feel your sarcasm over something, but your clever internet comment is going over my head. If you'd like to clarify, be my guest.

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Which is why their products suck at it, even in the end when they try to duct-tape something on before they ship anyway.

Whether that's the case or not, there's a reason why these major production companies don't hamstring themselves into this level of accommodation. And they have huge bank rolls behind them, and WAY more staff. Not to mention that they sell high volumes of their games and thus the percentage of people with disabilities who play them would be higher than little niche MMOs like this one. Yet, they still don't bother. Weird.

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

No, there's a clear sense of entitlement. But there should be! You paid money into the Kickstarter and don't want to see it go up in smoke. We get that. That's a perfectly valid reason to feel entitled.
It doesn't earn you the right to call the shots.

Why does asking questions equate to entitlement? Whether I contributed to this Kickstarter or not, I would still be wondering what was going on. A quick Google search of the definition of "entitlement" results in : the condition of having a right to have, do, or get something; the feeling or belief that you deserve to be given something (such as special privileges). I expect none of this. And I'm not demanding a thing. I'm not calling any shots either, that's going a little overboard. I just ask. Yet some of you are so quick to throw this term around, as if it trumps anybody else's opinion.

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Your understanding of development seems to be focused on the logistics of small, indie development groups with a small (single digits, usually) number of developers. I'm pretty sure MWM doesn't fit that mold.

You're pretty sure? Where do you get that from? I can't even find a list of people working on this project. Do we even know how large the team is? I've asked numerous times over the course of the last 2 years for a list of volunteers and I have never received an answer. So, if you're privy to this information, please share.

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

I'll note that you did not specify a required level of detail in your demand. So it's highly likely that any such update will be deemed insufficient and spawn another ragequit-worthy rant. Therefore, please provide a list of demanded status items, numbered so we don't have to keep typing them out.

I'll ignore your attempt at mockery and instead fulfill your request. I didn't realize you were part of the dev team either. Better get your avatar updated to reflect that. And for the record, there's nothing ragequit about what I'm saying. I apologize if you are taking it that way. Call it a rant if you like, I know you're meaning it as something derogatory in this case, but I'm not happy just posting winky faces and asking silly questions like "how many kinds of cat ears will we have?"

STATE OF THE GAME DEMANDED STATUS ITEMS(as per newly appointed dev team member Lin Chiao Feng)
1. Costume Creator progress - How are the models coming along? Will it be something like male/female/large, like CoH was? Have you started experimenting with sliders yet? And if so, how will they work? How many costume sets do you have completed at this time? Are you having much trouble with clipping? What kinds of problems are you experiencing with making everything fit together? Have you started working on cape/coat flowing mechanics yet? Will long hair flow and move in the wind as well? How do you plan on implementing color changing? Will power customization be available? How many costume pieces/body parts/accessories do you plan on having available for the beta? When do you think the beta will be available, now that we are getting close to the end of the year?
2. Game Engine - Have you narrowed down what kind of specs people will have to meet in order to play CoT smoothly? How is the collision detecting coming along? What are the animations looking like? Are the transitions coming together? Any work on particle effects and the like? Have you started experimenting with much in the way of environmental effects like weather or populating the world with birds or squirrels, etc.? Has the problem been fixed where the engine gets bogged down when too many trees are loaded into the zone?
3. Server status - What have the conversations been like regarding server load? Do you plan on having multiple servers like CoH did? Or do you think a couple will be enough? How far away are you from stress testing?
4. Power sets - Do you have any locked in yet? How many choices are you planning on having available at launch? Has there been much work done on their skill sets/graphics/buffs/debuffs? Any idea how many powers will be offered in each set? Are there any icons that have been finished 100%?
5. Augmentation slots - Are there any updates to this system? I was really excited about it last year when you teased it, how are things progressing with them? What kinds of issues are you having compatibility-wise? Do you find that this level of customization is making power development and balancing a problem at this stage? How many kinds of augmentations do you plan on having available at launch?
6. Zones - Have there been any final decisions on how many zones will be in the game? Will there be more than one starting area? What is the plan for loading each zone upon entering? Will you be able to seamlessly stream like WoW? Or is it a lot easier to set up something like a war wall? Are there zones that you are holding back for expansions in years to come?
7. Additional comments/problems - What kinds of things are you learning now that you had no idea to expect 2 years ago? Which problems are easier/harder than you thought they would be? What are your current struggles? Are the major headaches behind you now? When will marketing start? Are you planning another money-raising campaign? Will you be searching out investors? Anything else you'd like to share?

Honestly I could keep going. But this should be sufficient for now. Lin Chiao Feng, if you could pass this along to your friends in development, I would really appreciate it. And make sure you save a link to this post so that you can just copy/paste and not have to type them out. No, no, don't thank me. It's my pleasure.

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

P.S. If you feel your investment is truly at risk, please tell us what level you've invested at and the amount. Maybe one of us "kool-aid drinkers" could just buy your share out and you won't need to worry about it any more.

And this is the typical mindset of people like you. I wondered how long it would take to have this thrown in my face. My level of investment is really none of your business, nor is it relevant. I'm just as important as you are. You can have my kool-aid though, you're looking a little dehydrated.

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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*sigh*

*sigh*

Man, this is some really good kool-aid! Did you use more than 10% real fruit juice? Yes, I'd love some more, you can fill my cup anytime, thanks!

Be Well!
Fireheart

warcabbit
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Guys, enough.

Guys, enough.

There's not going to be the same kind of 12 Days of DevMas you got last year, from us. It almost broke the art department. It was a good experiment, but we just can't keep that up.

I'm hoping we'll have something done in time to show you something nice, a good present to you from us. We're working very hard on making it happen.

Zero's questions are both painful, and fairly legit, so I'll go through some of them.

1. Costume Creator progress - The base models are coming along very nicely, thank you.

We are hoping to only have two models, but we might have to have four - however, from a player perspective, there may be more than four - it's a question of chosen presets and UI rather than anything. Well, that and how well animations work when you're tricked out to Hulk size. So far, I'm remaining cautiously optimistic about that.

Sliders will work - at a minimum, exactly how they worked before. There may be an exciting new interface for them if something pans out.

Costume sets. Well, that is an issue. We have the base for a number of costume sets, but we keep iterating them to make them look better.

Are you having much trouble with clipping?
Check our updates.

What kinds of problems are you experiencing with making everything fit together?
Check our updates.

Have you started working on cape/coat flowing mechanics yet?
Why yes, we have.

Will long hair flow and move in the wind as well?
We have three different solutions we're experimenting with, and all of them have their problems and advantages. I'm going to take the brave step of saying yes here, though.

How do you plan on implementing color changing?
The same way we did months ago?

Will power customization be available?
Yes, we plan on having that in several different meanings of the term.

How many costume pieces/body parts/accessories do you plan on having available for the beta?
As many as are done, honestly.

When do you think the beta will be available, now that we are getting close to the end of the year?
When it's ready. I don't want to put out a buggy miserable mess.

2. Game Engine - Have you narrowed down what kind of specs people will have to meet in order to play CoT smoothly?
Not really, because we're not at the optimization stage yet. Our projected specs have not changed, but we're not sure on tablets.

How is the collision detecting coming along?
It's fine, though some of the animations aren't quite synched properly - we are getting the occasional 'hand in wall' rather than 'hand on wall' issues.

What are the animations looking like?
Pretty okay! We've got a few of them. Including one that will never see the light of day. (twerking)

Are the transitions coming together?
That's an area that needs a lot of work.

Any work on particle effects and the like?
Well, we've been working on the explosions button, yes - you've seen it a few times. It's gotten better every time.

Have you started experimenting with much in the way of environmental effects like weather or populating the world with birds or squirrels, etc.?
We can do butterflies pretty easily, but no, not birds or squirrels. We know how to do them, it's just something we're waiting on doing. Other stuff has priority.
Environmental effects - it comes and goes. We've got a number of parts of it functional, but I'm honestly not sure it'll look that good unless we get the ground perfect - and we are still working on the ground. Rain is one thing, but snow piles are trickier.

Has the problem been fixed where the engine gets bogged down when too many trees are loaded into the zone?
Ah, you have been reading the updates. It's one specific tree. Douglas Fir. Made by one specific company. Another reason to move away from the last minihood so someone doesn't grab old versions of it with old Doug in it.

4. Power sets - Do you have any locked in yet?
Yes, we do. And a number designed for after launch.

How many choices are you planning on having available at launch?
Did we say at KS? We're doing a soft launch, so it may start at zero, technically (call it Titan Chat) and ramp up from there. I'd be more concerned with the number of alternate animations for each power and the range of alternate FX.

Has there been much work done on their skill sets/graphics/buffs/debuffs? Any idea how many powers will be offered in each set?
Yes, there has, yes there is an idea. (and something I like - there'll be a choice in each tree)

Are there any icons that have been finished 100%?
Nope. They're one of those things that changes as you keep moving. However, the icon-maker is finished.

5. Augmentation slots - Are there any updates to this system? I was really excited about it last year when you teased it, how are things progressing with them?
Just fine, thank you. No real updates at the moment.

What kinds of issues are you having compatibility-wise? Do you find that this level of customization is making power development and balancing a problem at this stage?
Not really - we specced things out beforehand.

How many kinds of augmentations do you plan on having available at launch?
Fewer than CoH, but we're hoping they'll be more useful and more used.

6. Zones - Have there been any final decisions on how many zones will be in the game?
Yes!
Will there be more than one starting area?
Yes! There will be two starting areas, one in a nice area (Alexandria), and one in a more street area (Clarkstown). Note that this does not translate into 'one for heroes, and one for villians'.

What is the plan for loading each zone upon entering? Will you be able to seamlessly stream like WoW? Or is it a lot easier to set up something like a war wall?
I'm not answering this right now because we might still have problems despite careful planning. See: machine specs, and the recent update about holes. We've got a plan, but it may adapt.

Are there zones that you are holding back for expansions in years to come?
Oh yes, there certainly are. We have plans all the way through underground empires and star-kingdoms and hopefully giant robots and sentai fighters in California and just all kinds of huge plans. Let's get this done first.

7. Additional comments/problems - What kinds of things are you learning now that you had no idea to expect 2 years ago?
All sorts of things that I am now taking for granted. It's been a day by day struggle.

Which problems are easier/harder than you thought they would be?
Honestly, making the game-part of the game is easier than I thought. The part where you go punch people with lightning. Everything else surrounding it is more complicated.

What are your current struggles?
I don't really want to get into them right now. There are some, but most of them are at 80% solution and we think we have good answers.
I really wish we could pay our people salaries. I really do. I'm a couple grand in myself for various pieces we needed.

Are the major headaches behind you now?
I don't think they'll be behind me till we pass Launch Month.

When will marketing start? Are you planning another money-raising campaign? Will you be searching out investors?
Marketing never ends. We do want to raise more money, to hire some people full-time, but we really want to have something worth showing first.

Anything else you'd like to share?
Yer a pain in the neck, Zero.

Not all of these answers will be good enough for you. I'm doing my best to make the game. You've seen the updates, we're moving along.

That's all I can tell you right now.

Project Lead

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Oh, and guys, don't make me

Oh, and guys, don't make me turn this thread around and go home. This sniping about kool-aid is not what I want to see, and not how we should behave. We're better than that. We can disagree about things.

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Thank you for caring enough

Thank you for caring enough to share that with us, Warcabbit!

Be Well!
Fireheart

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I should note that, while you

I should note that, while you're a pain in the neck, Zero, it's good to have people holding our feet to the fire. Thank you for being there.

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warcabbit
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And thank you, Lin Chiao Feng

And thank you, Lin Chiao Feng, for continuing to believe in us. We're doing our best to live up to that belief, as fast as we can.

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I'd be careful about

I'd be careful about providing answers every time someone throws a "I'm not happy with what I know" tantrum. I believe that this is the second time it's worked for Zero. If being a PITA is a prerequisite for getting a list of questions answered then I'm certain there is more than one of us here who would be willing to put on that mantle. It always makes me feel like a bit of a fool to have faith and be willing to wait until you have an update ready to share while the malcontents get handouts because, onoes!, somebody is unhappy on the Internet.

If starting fires around here will get people results, prepare to have people start fires.

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warcabbit
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And that's not behavior we

And that's not behavior we want to encourage either, you're right. I'll remember that.

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It's worth noting several of

It's worth noting several of Zero's questions had been addressed in updates, sometimes several updates PER question.

--------------------------

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Yeah, I was about to say that

Yeah, I was about to say that I didn't really learn much that I didn't already know from the answers War gave. Which is not to say that there is anything wrong with War's answers. Rather it seems that most of those questions had already been asked and/or answered elsewhere on the forums.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Yeah, I was about to say that I didn't really learn much that I didn't already know from the answers War gave. Which is not to say that there is anything wrong with War's answers. Rather it seems that most of those questions had already been asked and/or answered elsewhere on the forums.

To be fair, searching these forums is not as easy as it should be... even harder if you want to search for dev posts (as you have to do it in a user by user basis... and the preview doesn't show any context of WHAT was said, just that they had posted in that thread)

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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On the other hand, one would

On the other hand, one would expect someone complaining so loudly about lack of info would have actually read the updates, if they wanted to have any credibility in the future.

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We love MWM, we Want it to

We love MWM, we Want it to succeed. NAY... We Need it To Succeed! ;)
The people that are just arriving haven't felt the fatigue yet, but its a tad different for those that have been holding on the ledge all this while. Pull us UP, grips slipping! ;)

Oh Noes... Dr Tyche is stepping the Pinky! Owww Owww...
I thought Dr T. was a Good Villain. What Gives!?! :<

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And just when I was about to

And just when I was about to applaud Warcabbit for humoring me and actually answering my questions (to my complete, entitled satisfaction might I add), other people just can't help but add their snidey little comments. Yes, perhaps some of those questions were answered before. There were a lot that I couldn't find when I looked. Trust me, it took ages to create that post and I did my best to protect myself against ineptitude. In my defense, there's no dev tracker to help find info, and it's not easy to locate anything specific either. And to Shadow Elusive, believe it or not, I read every update. Besides the lore. I skim through that. Do you honestly expect to only have to answer a question once? Good luck with future interviews then. I see what you're doing though, the way you post. The lingo you choose, and the way you phrase things. You get your digs in, in a very non-confrontational way. On the other hand, one would expect a Community Manager to have a little more patience and understanding with, you know - the community - if they wanted to have any credibility in the future.

Thank you Darth Fez for keeping track of my tantrums. I would like to say, for the record, that I don't enjoy being like that. If you care to know, I'm actually very mild-mannered and patient, and actually a pretty cool guy. I'm just bewildered at the opinion around here that when someone tries to get some more answers, their automatically typecast as a ragequit, tantrum-throwing, pain in the ass. That's more than a little judgmental. But, it is the internet I suppose. There won't be a 3rd time, I can promise you that. It's just not worth the headache. I'm sick of being singled out. I would like to point out, however, that if you really look, there are some staunch supporters of this project that have started to look a little shaky. No matter the passive aggressiveness of their posts, its there.

Again, Warcabbit. Thank you.

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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Thank you, Zerohour. But

Thank you, Zerohour. But still, while I respect your drive, can you maybe tone down the mixing it up with other people a bit?

You don't have to call people out that way. You've got the brain to disagree intelligently.

Think of it as an early Christmas present to us all. Little bit more harmony.

Cause that's the last time I'll answer from you calling me out.

I'm not asking for people to have a cult of personality here, but I want us to respect each other on the forums.

So, basically, seriously, cut it out, man.

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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

No matter the passive aggressiveness of their posts, its there.

Kettle.
Pot.

No wait ... don't tell me. I know the answer to this one ...


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
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Zero is not the only one tho.

Zero is not the only one tho.......

Hmmm.....

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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I think some deep breaths and

I think some deep breaths and some "serinity now's" all round would go a long way towards keeping what is at it's core a productive conversation from becoming obscured and possibly censured.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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I agree. Let's all give

I agree. Let's all give thanks that we know everyone here really cares about what's going on, and that's important to all of us.

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^^Word to the two posts above

^^Word, to the two posts above. Couldn't agree more.

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

Let's all give thanks

I see what you did there =3

Pulling the thanksgiving out in the merry devmas thread, +1

All this after I had just said how nice everyone was to each other, this is why we can't have nice things!

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

Zero is not the only one tho.......
Hmmm.....

shrug, tell me about it.

ah well. everyone has a role to play i guess.

Redlynne wrote:

Zerohour wrote:
No matter the passive aggressiveness of their posts, its there.
Kettle.
Pot.
No wait ... don't tell me. I know the answer to this one ...

There's nothing passive aggressive about the way I post.

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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Can we just drop this train

Can we just drop this train of thought please?

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I have a question. Will

I have a question. Will those of us who paid for Mogul be allowed to ask for modifications to our buildings before they get rolled out? I mean even just asking for a slightly different color roof or something would be a thing.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I have a question. Will those of us who paid for Mogul be allowed to ask for modifications to our buildings before they get rolled out? I mean even just asking for a slightly different color roof or something would be a thing.

Please create a new thread over in the "suggestions for the devs" forum.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Holidays are coming up, so

Holidays are coming up, so here's your homework! Watch this video.

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Here's a post I found on

Here's a post I found on Reddit, of all places, that provides some interesting insight and is worth keeping in mind:

Quote:

We're hoping for late 2016 for open beta, as it happens. Our progress is very deceptive, because of the way our volunteer structure operates, many elements of the game are being developed in tandem, but not as one. Meaning we've got all this progress on costumes happening over here , but work on the gameplay prototype is over here. Meanwhile a LOT of fundamental systems are actually mostly or entirely coded, but have not been hooked into our prototype.

Taking this further, many costume pieces have in fact been developed, but meanwhile the systems by which they would be put on the character model are being refined into a usable state, making them very hard to show off. All of this is exacerbated by an engine new enough for each update to be a game changer. Some parts of development have ended up staying in different versions so we could move them and put them together at once, rather than trying to hop versions over and over again. So we've completed a lot more than it appears. And it may be a little while longer before it appears otherwise.

Some of this segregation is a result of being scattered over the globe of course. Means trying to unify work in one place on a day to day basis isn't practical, better to plan for major convergence points. And until those convergence points occur, it makes us seem much further behind than we are.

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how long ago was that posted?

how long ago was that posted?

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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That was posted about a month

That was posted about a month ago.

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That makes sense and is kind

That makes sense and is kind of what I figured. There is very little that is strictly conventional about how this game is being developed, which has both good and bad aspects.

It's part of what we hope will make the game great, but also part of what is driving some crazy.

Let me go ahead and get this out of the way right now, though:

"Hoping" does NOT constitute a firm commitment to a hard deadline :P.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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So, over the course of two

So, over the course of two years, including unexpectedly swapping out the engine, the hoped for release has only slipped one year. That would (if it doesn't slip a lot more) bring the release to about four years from project launch, in an industry where (if I understand correctly) five years to launch is much more common...

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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Yeah, we're not doing that

Yeah, we're not doing that badly by general standards yet. And I remember making that post :D

I think I could have edited it better though. What it is is, there are chokepoints. We do our best to keep production going around those chokepoints while they are being resolved, with mixed results, though of course we keep getting better at it. Meanwhile, some chokepoints are 'until this is resolved, G through J can't be properly dealt with (and in game design, often, if it can't be properly dealt with than anything you do is just going to have to be redone anyway)' and others are 'until it's resolved, all the other things revolving around it exist in a vacuum'. Since they rarely do anything demonstrable in that state, once again, the impression of nothing is created. If it's too hard to demonstrate, we're not going to try, we're just going to keep working at it and make an update about something else.

It's remarkable how many features can come up internally and it turns out somebody already figured out all the necessary code - we just haven't completed the infrastructure it fits into. An MMO environment is a complex thing, so many many of its parts fit into the second form of chokepoint, where everything is kinda left floating until a certain point is reached. At some point, a critical mass in this whole network of interdependent pieces will be reached and it will seem like years of work happened overnight. Until then...well you've been watching. We keep thinking we're approaching that point, and it turns out we were wrong. One of those days we'll be right about it.

The segregation of work is as I'd put it, pretty much. Although, convergence of engine states is well underway. Unreal 4 has finally advanced far enough for us to pick a freezing point. While this may change, odds are looking very good we're going to stop at 4.10, and many bits have been moved successfully.

And yes, as Empyrean pointed out, I said 'Hoping', and that was very deliberate :). I'm very conscientious about this.

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

So, over the course of two years, including unexpectedly swapping out the engine, the hoped for release has only slipped one year. That would (if it doesn't slip a lot more) bring the release to about four years from project launch, in an industry where (if I understand correctly) five years to launch is much more common...

Five years generally if not more. Some MMO games take up to atleast 7.

Formerly known as Bleddyn

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Izzy
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Nyktos wrote:
Nyktos wrote:

Foradain wrote:
So, over the course of two years, including unexpectedly swapping out the engine, the hoped for release has only slipped one year. That would (if it doesn't slip a lot more) bring the release to about four years from project launch, in an industry where (if I understand correctly) five years to launch is much more common...

Five years generally if not more. Some MMO games take up to atleast 7.

As long as the Devs working on the game, can get some of their life years back, IF they Play the Game too! :)

TED Video: Games can give you 10 more years of life.

P.S.: Which game did that Alter Ego come from in the video at: 5:20? :D

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

TED Video: Games can give you 10 more years of life.

They'd better. They've cost me at least that much. :P

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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So do we need to start

So do we need to start checking reddit for updates/new info instead?

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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Go right ahead! You can tell

Go right ahead! You can tell us what you discover.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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There's also the CoX thread

There's also the CoX thread at the Something Awful forums, since Warcabbit posts in there every now and then. You'd fit right in with the guys who post in that thread.

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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

So do we need to start checking reddit for updates/new info instead?

If you want to see the responses to questions or comments posted on Reddit, then you need to check Reddit. News and updates may not always be posted here first, but they are always posted here.

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They're certainly posted here

They're certainly posted here before Reddit - all social media just gets a link to the update or info post here.

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So @Shadow Elusive, I saw

So @Shadow Elusive, I saw that you had said "something" is in the works and you are still hoping to get it out by the end of the year, will this most likely be Merry Devmas related or is it far to uncertain to pin it to any specific time slot?

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Not telling

Not telling

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(No subject)

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Okay, that is a *really* good

Okay, that is a *really* good one. But still no.

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Okay :( I'll be patient if I

Okayyyy :( I'll be patient if I have to.

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"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Zerohour wrote:
So do we need to start checking reddit for updates/new info instead?

If you want to see the responses to questions or comments posted on Reddit, then you need to check Reddit. News and updates may not always be posted here first, but they are always posted here.

I didn't even know there was an official reddit thing for CoT, thats all I was trying to clarify

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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Speaking of winter events,

Speaking of winter events, how cool would this be: Snow Globe!

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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

Darth Fez wrote:
Zerohour wrote:
So do we need to start checking reddit for updates/new info instead?

If you want to see the responses to questions or comments posted on Reddit, then you need to check Reddit. News and updates may not always be posted here first, but they are always posted here.

I didn't even know there was an official reddit thing for CoT, thats all I was trying to clarify

It's more like, there is a reddit page for CoT - I more or less stumbled on it. Zombie seems to have known about it because I see posts from him there, but my immediate predecessor had clearly never been there. So, I started posting links to our updates there and checking occasionally to answer questions. It's gone from a sad 82 readers to 320, which is decent I guess. I'd originally thought having this on Reddit was sorta like facebook but it's become clear a reddit feed is less personal. You don't really own your own Reddit thread like you do your facebook page.

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I came across the Reddit page

I came across the Reddit page because I thought I'd check to see if CoT had a Reddit page. Then I promptly forgot about it for about half a year until something brought Reddit to mind again. No doubt having a Reddit presence will be useful, considering how some people feel about Facebook.

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Mock the fools with bouts of


Mock the fools with bouts of folly,
Troll lol lol lol lol,lol lol lol lol.
Tis the season to be trolly,
Troll lol lol lol lol,lol lol lol lol.

Don we now our swanky top hats,
Troll lol lol,lol lol lol, lol lol lol
Tease those hopeless foolish prats,
Troll lol lol lol lol,lol lol lol lol.

See the blazing scrubs before us,
Troll lol lol lol lol,lol lol lol lol.
Watch the nubs whinge, whine and cuss
Troll lol lol lol lol,lol lol lol lol.

Follow me in merry trolling,
Troll lol lol lol lol,lol lol lol lol.
While I tell of entitled whining,
Troll lol lol lol lol,lol lol lol lol.

Laugh away the bleeding hearts,
Troll lol lol lol lol,lol lol lol lol.
Hail the new, great trolling arts,
Troll lol lol lol lol,lol lol lol lol.

Type we trollers, all together,
Troll lol lol lol lol,lol lol lol lol.
Make them cry, tis our endeavour,
Troll lol lol lol lol,lol lol lol lol.

whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, the abyss also look into you, -Friedrich

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Unnecessary and in bad taste,

Unnecessary and in bad taste, dawnofcrow. I would prefer not to see this type of behavior here.

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

No doubt having a Reddit presence will be useful, considering how some people feel about Facebook.

And some of us consider Reddit to be dominated by trolls like crow above and not worth visiting.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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And so, we are on both.

And so, we are on both.

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A bridge too far? >.> <.<

A bridge too far?

>.> <.<

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Is this CoT footage or a

Is this CoT footage or a something else?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unL4rnpQRjA

Just asking, the VO people alluded to it being CoT related, but the account is not MWM.

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

Is this CoT footage or a something else?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unL4rnpQRjA
Just asking, the VO people alluded to it being CoT related, but the account is not MWM.

Yeah, I read an update on VO's site and was wondering too. I really liked the comment about the supposed competition yet here we only have an example of mutual respect. Kudos to both teams. This is something I like to see and read because it is encouraging and in keeping with the community spirit of CoH.

Edit: oops, didn't see that one. I actually got the early Ice Melee video from VO's wordpress site.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKGPx4FdhNQ

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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^^Yea, you can tell that they

^^Yea, you can tell that they genuinely respect one another, to post videos and whatnot. I play CO and DCUO, therefore will ditch those two in a heart beat to jump on the VO and CoT wagon, lol; four MMOs is too much for me. The VO folks alluded to a cross-over event or something in the past, would be neat. I was hard on VO in the Valiance thread, but they appear to be good folks, and I will support their product as-well.

The combat sorta reminds me of Killer instinct (How the hits connect), haha, like it.

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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Hah! Did you see the street

Hah! Did you see the street was named Warcabbit Lane?

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Hah! Did you see the street was named Warcabbit Lane?
Be Well!
Fireheart

LMAO, dang, did not catch that; had to watch it again it. Hilarious.

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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According to the one of the

According to the one of the Youtube comments the uploader made - those videos are part of a project the he/she was working on before they joined the CoT team.

So, if what they say is true, this is not CoT, but this person definitely has talent and adding another talented person to the team is a good thing.

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Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:

According to the one of the Youtube comments the uploader made - those videos are part of a project the he/she was working on before they joined the CoT team.
So, if what they say is true, this is not CoT, but this person definitely has talent and adding another talented person to the team is a good thing.

Ah, ok, thanks.

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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This video release was,

This video release was, obviously, not scheduled by us, nor intended, and as such should not be taken as a demo.

It is not our intended release anytime soon.

That being said... see you on Warcabbit Lane.

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Will long hair flow and move in the wind as well?

Warcabbit
We have three different solutions we're experimenting with, and all of them have their problems and advantages. I'm going to take the brave step of saying yes here, though.

The final preferred eventual result is hair that flows like a cape with variable height selection of when the hair actually
turns flowing. Allways, the tricky part is making it seem hair colored and have it flowing in the same manner as the cape in synchronized flowing.

Tannim222
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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

Interdictor wrote:
According to the one of the Youtube comments the uploader made - those videos are part of a project the he/she was working on before they joined the CoT team.
So, if what they say is true, this is not CoT, but this person definitely has talent and adding another talented person to the team is a good thing.

Ah, ok, thanks.

The video is also in another thread here on our boards. It is work being done by our powers coder AmIevil who starting working on a project on his own and now with us. It is not representative of actual work for our game exactly, but reflective of the work he is doing testing out the systems code. As such, the look, names, and so on are not representative of production on this game. The work he is doing is fun to watch and he is doing an excellent job.

We have a team of people which have and continue to iterate our pre-production data into a producable state. Myself in particular I am iterating the power sets and set mechanics working in conjuction with the power design team. We're working toward a convergence of coding the operational function and the entirety of the framework.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
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To put it another way, part

To put it another way, part of the power of Unreal is that we can split the game up into multiple parts and have people work on them separately. What's in the video is the 'player facing' things, but the meat of the game - the combat rolls, the enhancement system, all that, isn't tied in yet - you'll note the class is just sort of 'boxer' or 'fighter' because of the animation set used.

We didn't really plan on releasing anything till it was assembled together a bit tighter, but we're all glad you like it.

It should look a little better when you see the actual thing. Tiny bit. Tiiiiiny bit.

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My only concern was that the

My only concern was that the weird things falling off enemies when they took damage but Doc Tyche mentioned that they are only there for testing. Everything looked really good, looking forward to seeing the tiiiinnyy bit of improvement on the actual thing :)

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

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The debug effects are most

The debug effects are most definitely for testing purposes, so don't worry. They act as a visual indicator of stuff happening.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
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All I have to say is,

All I have to say is, even understanding that video was not actual MWM or CoT footage, for deep pre-alpha type footage, that was pretty fricking exciting to me.

I mean, if that footage even in any small way indicates the quality of an initial starting point for the graphics and movement for CoT, then, in addition to the information about mechanics and lore that has been released, there is a good chance this game will be all that I didn't even let myself hope it would be.

If the art style ends up as solid as the officially released lore and game mechanics, and IF (big if, not an actual MWM or CoT preview, I know) the graphics and movement are developing somewhat along the lines of that represented on that video, this game may ruin my life. In a good way :P.

Lots of "ifs" and "mays" there, I know--but even so, promising and exciting!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Hmm... Very interesting.

Hmm... Very interesting. One week before year-end.

Doesn't really matter. My new game machine died and I won't be back in the States to take it back to the retailer and get it repaired/replaced until March. My patience/impatience is immaterial until then.

Still. Very interesting videos. Very interesting dev comments. Not reading anything into this little discussion, but still finding it all so very, very intriguing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My author page at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B000APIPZC?ref_=pe_584750_33951330

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I'm just anxiously waiting to

I'm just anxiously waiting to see what they've got brewing before the end of the year.

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Hmmm that gameplay video is

Hmmm that gameplay video is very interesting....glad to have that guy in the dev team

Formerly known as Bleddyn

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

All I have to say is, even understanding that video was not actual MWM or CoT footage, for deep pre-alpha type footage, that was pretty fricking exciting to me.
I mean, if that footage even in any small way indicates the quality of an initial starting point for the graphics and movement for CoT, then, in addition to the information about mechanics and lore that has been released, there is a good chance this game will be all that I didn't even let myself hope it would be.
If the art style ends up as solid as the officially released lore and game mechanics, and IF (big if, not an actual MWM or CoT preview, I know) the graphics and movement are developing somewhat along the lines of that represented on that video, this game may ruin my life. In a good way :P.
Lots of "ifs" and "mays" there, I know--but even so, promising and exciting!

Prepare to have no life lol.

AI Coder,Animator,FX Guy,Blueprint Guru,Etc... You have an army? We have a Fred.

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Is that a death threat? That

Is that a death threat? That looks like a death threat.

We've got devs making death threats over here!

I think this may be unprecedented. What do I do? Do I take a drink? I'm so confused!

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Is that a death threat? That looks like a death threat.
We've got devs making death threats over here!
I think this may be unprecedented. What do I do? Do I take a drink? I'm so confused!

Now's the time to ask yourself that question... `Do you feel Lucky? Well... Do ya... Punk!!??` >:)
*btw, yes... that was a movie quote*

Side Note:
When i see "Am I Evil", my mind goes to the question "Who's Bad?"

>:D

As long as "AmIEvil's" ingame avatar doesn't look like `The Smooth Criminal`..

..We're All SAFE! ;)

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Nah not a death threat just

Nah not a death threat just thinking of things to come.

AI Coder,Animator,FX Guy,Blueprint Guru,Etc... You have an army? We have a Fred.

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Izzy you crazy bro!

Izzy you crazy bro!

AI Coder,Animator,FX Guy,Blueprint Guru,Etc... You have an army? We have a Fred.

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Izzy's close, but wrong song.

Izzy's close, but wrong song. You want the Big 4 for that. Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, and Anthrax. They picked the single heaviest metal song they knew, and they played it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upKtoIxXoig

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amievil wrote:
amievil wrote:

Prepare to have no life lol.

That's it, I'm going to have to plan my vacation time around the release date.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Every Christmas needs a

Every Christmas needs a little death. Just ask the villains.

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

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Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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