So, something that several other games have that CoH was lacking until close to the end of its lifespan (And even then, I think it only had one) were three things. I feel they should be included in CoT for the sake of
First is [b]Charge Mechanics[/b]. The idea is that an ability can be used either multiple times before it goes on cooldown, or has a cooldown that can give you 'charges' of it. For the former, say you can use a skill three times before it goes on cooldown for thirty seconds, then you can use it again three times. The second style of a charge mechanic is similar, but different; When you use a skill, that "charge" goes on cooldown. So, the skill above says it has a 10 second cooldown instead of thirty second, but it only recovers one charge at a time.
There would also, of course, be a mini-cooldown between each use of the skill (typically 1 second or so) before you can use it again, to prevent going 'nova' on someone who can't get away.
[b]Charge-Up Mechanics[/b] are the idea that if you hold down a particular skill long enough it'll get more powerful, because you're pushing a longer casting time into it. there would of course have to be a maximum, to prevent people from abusing how long they can charge... but still. It adds a bit of versatility to play.
Finally, a [b]Combo System[/b]. Some people may remember the Street Justice powerset from CoX, which is a good example of this - the idea is conditional bonuses based on the order in which you use a set of skills. The second way to implement it would be to have the extra combo parts simply be unavailable until you use the initial skill.
I know these are probably pretty obvious, but I still felt the need to mention them, as they haven't really been mentioned elsewhere that I've seen. More ideas for the versatility of the powers system is generally a good thing, after all.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
I think some of these might be in the momentum system
I like the first idea. But this would prove a hinderence more than anything to me. Lets say i use one charge. That's all i need to take out a hellion or something along those lines. Would i not be forced to use all of my other charges to initiate a 30 second cooldown i could have skipped without that system. If it were implemented into all of your powers you could have an extra key. Maybe the u key. U for universal cooldown activation. So any powers with used charged go into cooldown for the ammount of charges used. For example, two charges used yeilds a 20 second cooldown. But if you use all charges, all 3, in this case. An automatic cooldown is activated so any powers in with only 1 or 2 charges used aren't being forced to be put onto cooldown with the use of the U key.
The first example, which is also commonly referred to as a chain mechanic, is not something we're planning on implementing. Very early on in the pre-production process the concept was floated and ulimately discarded for various reasons.
The second example, which is something we plan to use, with limited (read judicious use) application.
The third example really isn't so much having to do with charging, but is rather a resource mechanic. Get so much of resource X before Y can occur. Some games can use resource X and depending on the skill used, have A, B, or C happen. Our resource system will be found in Momentum. When a power set calls for earning a resource in order to achieve a particular effect, it will rely on Momentum, even if that resource shows up as stacks, numbers, or a meter.
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So there wont be a 'use power A then power B to change the effect of power C' situation as per Dual Blades or Street Justice? Its going to be a meter fills and certain powers effects are changed?
I've always found this kind of stuff to be an unwanted complication to the game.
I already have to worry about energy cost (whatever that's called it's always there) and cool down.
In Dungeons and Dragons online there are ability that have Charges. That means you can use them a limited number of times before you have to rest to recharge them. (I like that it's simple)
But combos and build up and that 3rd thing all just make me avoid them. I never played a Brute and didn't like the katana or Street Justice power sets because I just didn't want to have to learn and remember all that crap.
PLEASE Keep it simple.
I know there are people who love a complicated combat system with lots of tricks t figure out so they can mock the folks who can't figure it out or just can't handle the twitchiness of it but there are also people who like torturporn. We don't really need something for everyone.
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The way in which I read it was that this was not going to apply to *every* power/powerset.
Ironically, it looks like the momentum system is going to potentially be the worst thing about the whole combat system for you... And momentum will be applicable for ALL characters.
Now how each AT/powerset USES the momentum though is another matter.
It doesn't seem impossible, to me, to still ahve some kind of "ordering of attacks matters" type of power set, even given what Tannim222 has said. If you want it to go like "attack A, then B, then C" you could make attack A be an attack the debuffs the target such that it makes attack B that much better, then B sets up C in a similar fashion.
Another question this brings to mind: is it likely there will be attack powers that also have an ancillary self-buff attached? For example, a ranged attack that does damage, but also hits the caster with a self heal or siphons endo from the target to the caster or lowers the target's resistance then raises that of the caster, etc. I don't just mean "vampiric" effects here, I mean anything that's functionally "attack you and help me at the same time".
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To be honest, I always kind of liked the Rogue Combo system in World of Warcraft.
These attacks add Combo Points (up to 5).
These attacks are powered up by and consume Combo Points (drains to zero).
It was a reasonably simple system that was easy to learn and tricky to master ... which is exactly what you want in a gaming experience.
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Not at all. It's not these kind of triggers are part of the momentum system, not in the power themselves.
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Not at all. It's not these kind of triggers are part of the momentum system, not in the power themselves.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Vanguard, Saga of Heroes had an interesting variation on the charge up mechanic.
I can't remember the exact name anymore but the Sorceror power, instead of going on a global cooldown, went on a individual countdown timer.
If the power was activated again before the countdown reached zero, the power fired again. But this time for greater damage, and then reset the countdown timer to maximum.
This could be repeated as many times as desired and the damage dealt kept going up linearly.
Obviously there had to be a downside to this, and that was where the power got fun.
Rather than being powered by Mana, this particular attack was fueled by first doing damage to the player. And every subsequent time the power was activated this damage ramped up more or less exponentially..
This made it an interesting tactical choice on how often to fire it in quick succession, before it became too dangerous. Sorcerers were glass cannon so they had very little defense. They could use this attack to burn down their enemies, but at the cost of being defeated by any stray hit or AoE (of which the game had many). Particularly inept players could very easily kill themselves by spamming this power.
Before too long the developers discovered a) that in raid settings this power was way too strong and b) that there were a surprisingly large number of inept players who kept killing themselves without ever realising that it was themselves doing it through this power. So in one of the earlier big revamps (the game was horribly unfinished when first released) they changed this from unique and exhilarating (and surprisingly entertaining for other players :)) into a bland and forgettable (and largely unused) vanilla power.
Not sure if there are ways around the drawbacks, but, yes, it was one of the most entertaining and tactical powers in an MMO that I have ever seen.
Sorry Tyche but I am having a bit of trouble following what you mean here.
Basically I was asking if there will ever be a simple combo system such as we saw in the CoH sets Street Justice or Dual Blades.... because Tannim seemed to imply that the catch all momentum system (described in the updates) was the direction you went instead of the combos.
Yes there will be combo systems, but they may not exactly be just like those two sets described. This is because the additional effects provided by the combo do not have to be based off using a particular chain to obtain an effect, instead the effect itself is provided by building momentum.
Think of it this way: in street justice there were combo builders and finishers. With our momentum mechanic, any power can be used to build momentum, and certain powers can have additional effects triggered by thresholds of momentum. The key here is that momentum has to be maintained in order to keep getting these additional "combo" effects. It allows us to make some very fun free-form combos if we want or we can be more rigid.
Yes, those types of powers are possible too.
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You would like The Secret World then
They have a lot (and I mean most) powers based off such a system. Builders that generate points for one or both equipped weapons and consumers that consume a number of these weapon charges for extra effect. Some of them have a required number of charges that they use, others don't and use all available points. Yet others consume a number of charges and make up a shortage by dealing damage to self instead.
Tank powers generally come fully charged and regenerate over time (but far more quickly using buliders), dps and heals need to be charged (though heal sets always come with plenty of useful heals that don't require charges).
On top of that each power can be one of a number of single and multiple target variety and is associated with a specific kind of debuff usually for extra effect (e.g. a chain power that hits up to 5 targets within close proximity that triggers a secondary effect on targets that are afflicted with a damage over time. Which the set that particular power belongs to generally can not apply. Rounding out the system are passive powers, some of which may act like an 'affect changer'. E.g. a power that reads 'When penetrating a targets defenses applies a damage over time that deals 150 points of damage for 5 ticks'. This then allows to combine a power set that is good at penetrating defenses, with one that has powerful secondary effects but only against targets that are afflicted by a DoT.
Combine this then with the ability to swap weapons and power load-outs as often as you want (while out of combat) and you end up with a system that is very deep (too deep in fact for most casual players). And at the higher difficulty dungeons the developers not only expect, but require, that players know different play styles, have different types of weapons mastered and can quickly adapt to monsters (dungeons pretty much only have boss fights, no trash clearing required) that have unique strengths, weakness, immunities and retaliations against certain types of attacks and debuffs, and have their own power combinations to use against the players.
Not sure how any of this would apply to City of Titans, but it is a nice example of how a good systems design and a willingness to think out of the box can bring unique play styles to a genre that is considered stale by most.
Ok, so its basically what I said before...a meter bar raises to get additional effects. That's probably the easiest way to do it because powersets wont have specific themes (such as boxing) to account for the 'old one two' type combos.
I enjoyed the combo system of Dual Blades and Street Justice and Staff even had a unique way of using the set. I'd like to see these again.
I see the parallels between momentum and a hypothetical combo system. They diverge at the complexity. Where a combo system requires strict adherence to an attack string for maximum results with momentum anything will do so long as it doesn't consume your momentum. I think this is nearly identical to the heat/ammo/focus management system in TOR which is used in positive or negative formats (either you build the bar to use powers or you keep it from maxing and preventing the use of powers) across most of the classes. I have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand it's a simple system that adds easy to understand complexity, but it's simplicity also doesn't challenge the user for very long. (I almost never run into issues with these management bars latter in the game)
It all boils down to implementation. If momentum is well designed and managed for each power set then it could prove to be an adequate replacement for a combo system that still requires some complex thought and planning.
Even with momentum a combo system can be built since the powers can apply self buffs. A simple status buff could yield an effective combo system.
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