What Happens when your hero is defeated?

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Project_Hero
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"As a registered hero of

"As a registered hero of paragon city I was given a device that when my vitals are critical automatically teleports me to a hospital." Is much better for a reason than no reason at all.

Less stubbed my toe more I was stabbed and am bleeding out.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

blacke4dawn
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Lets just agree on that there

Lets just agree on that there should be no hard set explanation in the Lore but rather up to the players themselves to rationalize it.

Of course MWM could include rationalizations for their own characters and/or factions that could be "copied" by others if they so choose.

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I think there should be a

I think there should be a base in-universe reason that could then be altered or customize by the players. Basic is med-port (or something legally distinct) but then if you could customize it (with animations or what have you) then this is no longer the case.

I prefer an explanation to "dunno lol" especially when it comes to "how come when my Batman-esque guy was caught in that giant explosion he didn't die?" Quick answer he was medi-vac'd.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

Brand X
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If you put in med port, then

If you put in med port, then you just put it into lore. Med port was the dumbest idea, as it took away any reason to fear death. It made the deaths of Statesman and Sister Psyche make no sense, since they should've just med-ported out.

There is no reason the game needs a lore based reasoned for "You got defeated and you've returned." They can easily keep it out of character and just revive you at start of mission or start of zone.

Again, why give just registered heroes access to such tech? The cops now don't need heroes to help, because they have the tech and don't have to worry about death either! :p

Really didn't make sense with Arachnos and it's survival of the fittest mentality. "You were defeated! You were not the fittest! Try again!" :p

The med-port continues to be a dumb in game lore idea. Not to mention if this game did it, they'd be out right copying CoH.

Project_Hero
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Ah yes because no other MMOs

Ah yes because no other MMOs ever have some sort of in-lore explanation for revival. Oh wait.

And when it comes to character death that, to me, adds mystery. Why didn't they get medi-ported? Was someone or something jamming it? It could be a good mystery if the writers went that way.

The Arachnos thing, yeah, doesn't make any sense. But running to fight another day is a survival technique? But they couldn't exactly make villain side hardcore mode.

I get what you're saying though and to a certain degree I agree. But having nothing? No explanation, no nothing? Unless you yourself decide to make one that just seems lazy.

I'd still be pretty fearful of death even with a medi-port system in place. One, the damage you sustained before porting was too extreme, you couldn't be saved. Two, like with Statesman and Sister Psyche sometimes I guess it fails. Three, like in the CoH comics it can be brought down. So there's still plenty of reasons to fear dying. Just because the Players have a 100% track record doesn't mean it's always the case.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

Brand X
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I felt TOR was "You're not

I felt TOR was "You're not dead. You're just injured."

WoW felt like "Nope. You totally died!"

Something CoT could do is, "You've been captured by the enemy!"

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I felt TOR was "You're not dead. You're just injured."
WoW felt like "Nope. You totally died!"
Something CoT could do is, "You've been captured by the enemy!"

Who then inexplicably heal you? But then again I don't know how many times in comics the bad guys capture a hero only to have them bust out and win from there, so not all that far-fetched. But it happening on the regular might be.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

blacke4dawn
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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Something CoT could do is, "You've been captured by the enemy!"

There will be some like that, as there were in CoH.

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Well, if you were defeated on

Well, if you were defeated on a regular basis, maybe the hero should find a different road to helping people. Like a soup kitchen! :p

Likely, less healed you, and more, regained conscience. I would hope no one considers things like the life bar as in character. Are people going to assume all heroes can see the heroes name right above their head? :p

I just came up with a way for it not to be "Everyone is safe! Med transport when dead!" To "You weren't dead, you were beaten unconscious and now prisoner!" :)

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A health bar need not be seen

A health bar need not be seen for it's effects to be known. It shows how close you are to being defeated, whatever you wish to define that as.

And of course people aren't going to assume you can see names over heads, those can be turned off in most MMO's options :P

Also the method you suggest gets really silly if you keep dying on the same mission. KO, prison, break out, KO again, same prison, break out again, rinse and repeat. Eventually you think the badguys would be like "Just... Just throw him outside." Or something.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I felt TOR was "You're not dead. You're just injured."
WoW felt like "Nope. You totally died!"
Something CoT could do is, "You've been captured by the enemy!"

Nobody dies in LOTRO. You’re only “demoralized” and “retreat from battle”. They even call their health stat “morale”, and the stone circles where you respawn “rally points”. Resurrection is only for Istari, and only good Istari at that. Isn’t that right, Saruman?

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

The mediport reasoning was stupid, as it meant, there was no getting hurt or killed in the lore. "Ouch! Stubbed my toe! Teleport to hospital so it doesn't hurt!"

My goodness... At least I lived long enough to hear you say that sometimes a game's lore is a bit too silly to be strictly adhered to without question. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I never said lore couldn't be

I never said lore couldn't be stupid.

From an individual player stand point that doesn't really RP, the medi port system may not actually be that bad (I think it is :p) but from an open world RP stand point, it's terrible and if you RPed with people, you notice how they always ignored the medi-port system in RP.

If it wasn't ignored it wasn't called out as "Oh...it ummm...wasn't working at that time." "What? There's 20 of you standing around injured...at different times..." "Yeah >_>" :p

Also, we don't see things like that in the main comics, so I'd like for it to stay out of the comic book game too :)

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Injured doesn't always mean

Injured doesn't always mean requires a medi-port. You could be down and not need a medi-port. You know that period of time when others can get you up or you can pick yourself up. And if they're in an SG with a medical room or whatever they might be off the city's Medi-port grid.

One of my characters teleported by hacking the Medi-port grid. So I always thought it was a useful thing to have in the background.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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I'm okay with being

I'm okay with being mediported to the Hospital. The transit time back to the mission should be punishment enough.

Brand X
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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Injured doesn't always mean requires a medi-port. You could be down and not need a medi-port. You know that period of time when others can get you up or you can pick yourself up. And if they're in an SG with a medical room or whatever they might be off the city's Medi-port grid.
One of my characters teleported by hacking the Medi-port grid. So I always thought it was a useful thing to have in the background.

That seemed to be a very common background to many teleporters (I saw many do it) and it really made me think, if the system was that hackable, how did a villain not kill many heroes with it? :p

blacke4dawn
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I think what brand X is

I think what brand X is trying to get at is that there is no direct problem with there being several such "resurrection systems" in place (including medi-port) as long as none of them is explicitly said to be the default one that applies to all PC's and NPC's unless otherwise stated. If I interpret her correctly then having a default system leads to many more non-believable cases compared to just not having a default one.

Having a default system is one of those cases were you'll be tied down by the Lore instead of aided by it due to having to come up with workarounds or right out ignore it instead of just coming up with your own way. Leave it up to the player to justify why and how they are "ported" when they release from a defeat.

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I'd be down with different

I'd be down with different parts of the city having a different method for revival. Like, in one you wake up in a hospital in another you awaken in a mage's Sanctum the idea being that they were scrying on you and pulled you out.

I don't remember how champions handled it I think they didn't have an in lore reason "cause it's a game, don't think about it." Might just be me who likes to have an explanation for these things.

Either way I'd be 100% on board with custom respawn animations.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

Redlynne
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I'm going to lay down a

I'm going to lay down a marker on Hospitals.

City of Heroes essentially had a Hospital serving every single zone in the game. There were a FEW places where if you needed to Hospital you'd go to a place in an adjacent zone rather than in the same zone (the Sewers, for example, didn't have an in-zone Hospital), but for the most part there was a Hospital in every single zone.

Tabula Rasa took this a step further by stipulating that there needed to be a "medical station" (the equivalent to Hospital services) in EVERY zone ... including the instances (so you wouldn't exit the instance).

World of Warcraft has something somewhat similar with its Graveyard/Spirit Healer/Corpse Run system, in which most zones have 1 or 2 Graveyards in them (which is where you "go" when you release your spirit after being killed) and the system is set up to automatically send you to the "nearest" graveyard (no choices as to which one given) from the point of your untimely demise ... which can be in a different zone or even outside the instance that you were in if you were in a dungeon. WoW has things set up such that you're hit with a MASSIVE and enduring debuff penalty if you take the "ultimate out" of getting rezzed at the Spirit Healer in the Graveyard (only visible and interactable with WHILE DEAD), but if you run back (in Spirit Form) to your corpse and rez there, you take a much smaller death penalty (mainly just durability loss on items that then needs to be repaired at an NPC vendor) causing your fleshy corpse to transform into bleached bones that stay there until the server reboots (and act as a "warning" of sorts to other Players in the vicinity in the open world marking where you fell).

The marker that I'm going to put down is that all else being equal ... I'm thinking that it would be preferable in City of Titans to make Hospital services what amounts to Few & Far Between. So rather than having a Hospital in EVERY district of Titan City, I'm thinking it would be a better idea to put Hospitals (for recovering from defeats) in only a FEW districts, rather than into all of them. Something like putting in 1 Hospital per 17 character Levels (so there'd be one for Levels 1-17 and one for 18-34 and one for 35-50) on each side of the river running through Titan City (so duplicate for north and south) for a total of 4 Hospitals (2 north, 2 south) at Launch growing to a maximum of 6 Hospitals (3 north, 3 south) after the first expansion that includes Levels 31-40. That "1 per 17" guideline then assists with selecting the siting of where the Hospitals ought to be placed in the zone maps, at places that are consistent with Level 1/18/35 spawn groups in the vicinity.

In this case, the relative "scarcity" of Hospitals would then increase the value of having either Rez Powers (self only and/or others also) as well as "wakies" to Get Back Up where you fell so as to avoid the "trip" back to where you were defeated at.


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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I'd be down with different parts of the city having a different method for revival. Like, in one you wake up in a hospital in another you awaken in a mage's Sanctum the idea being that they were scrying on you and pulled you out.

I like this idea. Respawn sites should be thematic.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I don't remember how champions handled it I think they didn't have an in lore reason "cause it's a game, don't think about it." Might just be me who likes to have an explanation for these things.

CO indeed went the MST3K route, probably because they had the same discussion we’ve been having in this thread, and decided that it’s a can 55-gallon drum of worms when it comes to lore and role-playing.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I'd be down with different parts of the city having a different method for revival. Like, in one you wake up in a hospital in another you awaken in a mage's Sanctum the idea being that they were scrying on you and pulled you out.

If CoT goes this route, I like this suggestion.

Shadowrun has the DocWagon contract concept. You essentially pay a monthly subscription to get an armed ambulance & extraction crew (with varying equipment and effectiveness based on how much you pay) to come get you when you go down. As a game mechanic, this probably would not be too practical. I want to like this as a concept, but the reaction time would be a little weird. Either they take too long and you as a player get bored/annoyed, or they react way to quickly (like they were hovering there, waiting for you to go unconscious).

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I'd be down with different parts of the city having a different method for revival. Like, in one you wake up in a hospital in another you awaken in a mage's Sanctum the idea being that they were scrying on you and pulled you out.

If CoT goes this route, I like this suggestion.

Shadowrun has the DocWagon contract concept. You essentially pay a monthly subscription to get an armed ambulance & extraction crew (with varying equipment and effectiveness based on how much you pay) to come get you when you go down. As a game mechanic, this probably would not be too practical. I want to like this as a concept, but the reaction time would be a little weird. Either they take too long and you as a player get bored/annoyed, or they react way to quickly (like they were hovering there, waiting for you to go unconscious).

I agree it might be interesting to have different types of "ambulance services" depending maybe on both a combination of how much you pay and/or where you are in the game.

For instance if you drop right in the middle of Downtown you should end up at a city hospital and it should be pretty instantaneous. On the other hand if you're way off in some wilderness on the edge of the city it might take some extra time and you might wake up in some park ranger station or some-such. This would be like the minimal service you'd expect to get for "free".

But if you decide to pay an extra ambulance premium (which would be an optional periodic money sink) then at the very least the response times would be quicker and maybe you'd have other options like "don't rez me all the way back at the hospital but instead rez me as close as possible to where I dropped without being in an active combat area" so that you can get back to where you were ASAP. Another high-end option might be "transport me directly to my SG/personal base when I die" so like if you're RPing that you're a vampire or something it'd be like you had to go back to your personal "coffin" to resurrect yourself.

There are a lot of different ways that the overall "rezzing experience" can be changed/improved depending on how much extra your character is willing to spend for the "ambulance money sink" service.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I think there should be the

I think there should be the ability to wake up at one's personal lair or SG base, and I think that option should be somehow better than using the publicly-available option of the hospital.

One could argue that only having ONE public rez point available would act as a driving force for players to build lairs and or join/form SGs more. Or you could have different rez points and make them alignment-specific. Or you could have several rez points and have the game RANDOMIZE which one you wake up at when you get defeated and choose the public option.

Edit: Ooh, what if the different public rez points had NPCs that you could do content for in order to get better treatment at that facility? That, combined with randomized location rezzing would act as a driver to do all the hospital content in order to keep yourself in that place's good graces. Also, you could start to lose reputation with a hospital if you use it too many times without doing missions for them. Given the way gamers think, even those of us with a lair and SG to use would still want their hospital rep fully maxxed at all times, just in case.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

Project_Hero
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If the bases are anything

If the bases are anything like CoX with teleports to all sorts of places (which I hope will be consolidated into one item rather than having to be spread around a bunch of them) then it might seem better to some.

Having specially one Rez point would probably end up being a chaotic mess. As it may become a place where people end up idling for extended periods. Which could cause a lot of lag and possibly crashes on those with slower machines.

Edit: Losing rep with hospitals? "Yeah he may have saved the planet but he's running the bills up! Throw the deadbeat out!"

Edit 2: though having the ability to grant temporary bonuses/reduced penalties for rezzing at a base would be pretty cool. You have access to the latest Super Tech™ or the best mystical arts so when your base gives people care they leave better than they came in!

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

Radiac
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"better treatment" might be

"better treatment" might be done in a way that the NPCs themselves don't really acknowledge it though. Like maybe if you go to a hospitals that you've got terrible rep at, it takes longer for you to wake up, or you take more debt, or both. If there are debuffs for rezzing they might be like "we did the best we could with what we have, tkae your time getting back on your feet, you may be groggy for a while, whatever hit you messed you up pretty good there...". Whereas if you have high rep there, it might sound more like "It's a good thing they got you here in time, we got you treated before there was any permanent damage. You got lucky this time, hero, be careful out there." and then you have faster wake-up time, less debt, and less severe/no debuffs.

The point is, the nurses and doctors wouldn't callously subject you to malpractice, they'd still act like they had done their best. Meanwhile you the gamer are well aware that their results can be improved by doing missions for them.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Possibly the reverse of this

Possibly the reverse of this would be better. You do missions for them and you get bonuses when you rez there. It's sort of like the rest XP thing in WoW(and other games) at first it was a penalty for not logging out in an inn, players hated it, so they switched it around and gave folks less XP all the time but they could gain more XP if they rested in an inn and players liked it.

Probably just the psychology of bonuses and penalties.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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That may be true, but I think

That may be true, but I think that people should want to avoid defeat in the first place, so the feeling of punishment upon defeat is not out of place there. Also, giving a buff for getting defeated just feels wrong to me. I think they ought to avoid any kind of powers that give a buff when playes get defeated. Vengenace, from CoX was like that, as was Rise of the Phoenix. I'd rather just be able to do the power to buff someone or do an AoE attack, and then if someone is defeated, you can still do the power, but it's LESS powerful and rezzes the defeated toon. That way you still try to avoid defeat.

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Project_Hero
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If it was a movement speed

If it was a movement speed buff to get back to the action as fast as possible it wouldn't be too bad or out of place.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Radiac, I like your idea of

Radiac, I like your idea of farming rep with hospitals and other resurrection agencies. It's like you've commandeered one of my favorite brain cells and given it a warm home. In my mind, if there is an excuse to make something into a story or into a game play element, it should be so made.

By doing what you have imagined, there would be another layer added to the game.
And I really think that there should be competing organizations, each with its own advantages and disadvantages so you can farm for whatever service, reputation or particular characteristics your chosen resurrection service offers.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Competing organizations? What

Competing organizations? What is this Shadowrun?

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Competing organizations

Competing organizations sounds like it has some real potential. There are some REAL possibilities in a number of areas, although maybe not at launch. Maybe a facility lower on the tri axis alignment wants you to get some Vahz tech in return for future services? (Medical advancements can EASILY push ethical boundaries!) Saving the high school from a rampaging origin may let you rez in the nurses office. Conversely helping a crusading reporter expose rampant price fixing may help the general populous, but not endear you to the staff.

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What if 'Hospital Rep' is a

What if 'Hospital Rep' is a faction? You do missions for the Hospital faction and you get better results, regardless of where/how you rez. Okay, perhaps there's a competing organization/system, so you'd want to grind Rep with both of them. Particularly if it was a 'Villain' organization and your character was a rogue-vigilante. Then you'd definitely want good rep with both, but perhaps, above a certain level, doing work for one healing organization Reduces your rep with the other?

Be Well!
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I love it when you spill your

I love it when you spill your creative juices on me!

Let's picture a villain/vigilante hospital service. At low levels and/or low rep with them you go to body chop shops, back ally sawbones and occult apprentices with aspirations of sanitation. But as your reputation grows, they start showing like there's some funding stream or organization to them. Finally at max rep you show up unexpectedly inside some sterile mega corp or pan-dimensional beachhead. And this kicks off other story missions, should you choose to accept them, that uncover how and why these large organizations are interested in you and what kind of favors they need from you now.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Project_Hero
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I think getting offered

I think getting offered missions after I just died from a mission would be annoying. Also "Hey, you just got your butt kicked! You seem like someone who can get things done!"

Just seems to add another layer to something that probably didn't need it to begin with.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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I prefer the story-angle of,

I prefer the story-angle of, "Hey, we just patched you up. Get back in there and kick their butts, but when you get time, afterward, come see me. I've got some ideas for how you could help us both!"

Or "We did the best we could for you. If only we had a supply of 'chemical-x' we could do you up better next time!"

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I prefer the story-angle of, "Hey, we just patched you up. Get back in there and kick their butts, but when you get time, afterward, come see me. I've got some ideas for how you could help us both!"
Or "We did the best we could for you. If only we had a supply of 'chemical-x' we could do you up better next time!"

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking too. Or maybe you're a vigilante and you want to bust this mega corp because they sold bad drugs that ended up hurting some kids in your starting neighborhood. That kind of exposition would really create a good long, interesting story arc.

But Project_Hero does have a point that you just got defeated and all you want to do is get back to your mission, do you really want to go through all the dialogue boxes to get another mission right now? This does have to be taken into account if we were to do something like this.

In any event, let's also not forget clues. So you can get a clue without having to deal with a new mission pop-up from within a mission. You have gotten clues all along, but you don't get your final clue, that when combined witht he others actually kicks off the mission, until you rez in the full facility.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Yeah getting a lead might

Yeah getting a lead might work. Something you overheard during your time there... Or something.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Following the clue and

Following the clue and completing the mission could unlock the Hospital faction contact. Or unlock a 'choice' dialogue giving you a few contacts you could report to. They could be formal contacts or more irregular ones. It wouldn't even have to be found at the Hospital, although that Does make the most sense. One could just 'hear' that the hospitals need supplies.

The same sort of pattern could uncover other non-obvious factions. I'm still hoping for a Taxi faction and perhaps different Newsmedia factions.

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Taxi faction. For quick

Taxi faction. For quick travel, right? Makes sense. Great idea.


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Pay a reverse-port fee to be

Pay a reverse-port fee to be sent back to your extraction location (mission entrance) is one I've entertained for reducing down time at an igc cost.


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A Night Nurse situation for

A Night Nurse situation for the vigilantes?

Wind up on a couch flirting with the one fixing us up? :o

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Taxi faction. For quick travel, right? Makes sense. Great idea.

Tannim222 wrote:

Pay a reverse-port fee to be sent back to your extraction location (mission entrance) is one I've entertained for reducing downtime at an IGC cost.

Yes, that was one of the Taxi services I was thinking of, Tannim. Also the cost-mechanism I'd envisioned. Additionally, the zone-level transportation implied by Huckleberry.

I was thinking that the 'Tram' system would be cheap, fast, and effective for changing locations, but what if you want to go point-to-point in a hurry? Taxi service would pick you up where you are and take you where you want... Or to a 'taxi-stand' near your destination. I considered one might have to unlock those 'waypoints' through exploration, so a Taxi might only be able to take you to a place that you've been to. However, there could be certain major public waypoints that could be traveled to 'by name', "Cabby, take me to the Airport."

I had envisioned one mechanic for the Taxi being a sort of 'google-route generation' and then the player would see a quick montage/video as their camera was sped through the city on a semi-random least-time trip to their destination.

Further, I had imagined the 'Taxi Faction' as a way to earn discounts and special services from the Taxi system. Taxi Faction would be basically neutral, though they would probably object to any crimes against Taxis. Ultimately, the Taxi drivers might come looking for their favorite heroes and offer them missions or clues.

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Well, I have noticed on the

Well, I have noticed on the forums is there are some with a call to making it all as real as possible.

So maybe, you just die! Unless a team member has a rez power or you have a self rez! :p

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Well, I have noticed on the forums is there are some with a call to making it all as real as possible.
So maybe, you just die! Unless a team member has a rez power or you have a self rez! :p

As real as possible? Well in real comics heroes very rarely stay dead! :P

Though if we could have a mission where our characters can literally fight their way out of the underworld that would be rad as hell.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Nope. They don't say as real

Nope. They don't say as real as in comics. :p They say real as in real world. It's been stated many times on these forums. "Oh! Look! Everything should be realistic! Like melee fighting should look boring and not entertaining like in a movie or comics!"

:p

Though, when it comes to reviving, it seems to be a different tone. "Yay! Medi-porter! All death is meaningless! Makes no sense that people are worried with the highly available tech!" :p

These are also the same people who likely said things like "Hellions are weak. They can't even take a bag from an old lady!" on the CoH forums :p

Though, I do like the idea of fighting our way out of the underworld to revive without a revive power! :)

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That would be great for some

That would be great for some kind of magic task force or big mission. In stead of going to a hospital you end up in the underworld and need to fight your way out and back to your party.

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I wasn't thinking that the

I wasn't thinking that the hospital staff NPC would hit you up to do missions as soon as you rez at the hospital. Just that those missions would exist, you'd know about it because it'd be part of the game, and you'd be aware that you could improve your rez experience in some way by doing the missions. They could be dailies, or an arc, or something. Also, I was envisioning that there'd be multiple different hospital locations, and that you'd always get sent to a random one, so that you'd have a reason to want to get all of the hospital content from all of the different places done as often as needed to keep your rep points more or less maxxed, lest you get defeated and wake up at a place you have low rep at.

This would cause people to have more content to do for some tangible gain, even if it is just the quality of the public rez option for your toon, and as such t would encourage people to not get defeated, so as to keep their rep maxxed and not have to do the hosp content again. It's like playing DnD and getting a cool scroll or one-use item like a Lightning Javelin. You tend to want to hold onto it way too much and not use it, lest it need to be replaced.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

That would be great for some kind of magic task force or big mission. In stead of going to a hospital you end up in the underworld and need to fight your way out and back to your party.

This won't work though, unless it is triggered by a total party wipe. And even then the players will most likely bitterly resent it.
Remember how players used to hate on the few missions where they would be transported to a prison rather than the hospital?

Just forcing a single player to make a lengthy and time consuming detour before they can join up with the group again will most likely result in the group falling apart. The players still in the mission will not want to wait for ten or fifteen minutes (in SW:TOR there were these cut scenes in group missions that told the story and usualy gave the players the chance to earn a few social points. Regularly players starting an alt would throw a hissy fit when another player in their group wanted to actually take the fifteen /seconds/ to follow the unfolding story rather than escape out of it. Often to the point of quitting in rage or kicking the offending player out of the group for 'slowing everybody down'.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I wasn't thinking that the hospital staff NPC would hit you up to do missions as soon as you rez at the hospital. Just that those missions would exist, you'd know about it because it'd be part of the game, and you'd be aware that you could improve your rez experience in some way by doing the missions. They could be dailies, or an arc, or something. Also, I was envisioning that there'd be multiple different hospital locations, and that you'd always get sent to a random one, so that you'd have a reason to want to get all of the hospital content from all of the different places done as often as needed to keep your rep points more or less maxxed, lest you get defeated and wake up at a place you have low rep at.
This would cause people to have more content to do for some tangible gain, even if it is just the quality of the public rez option for your toon, and as such t would encourage people to not get defeated, so as to keep their rep maxxed and not have to do the hosp content again. It's like playing DnD and getting a cool scroll or one-use item like a Lightning Javelin. You tend to want to hold onto it way too much and not use it, lest it need to be replaced.

I am afraid that most players will see this not as an optional mission but a mandatory one, which I think defeats the purpose of this proposal.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

when you said "use death as a marketing moment" what crossed my mind was a store item where when you died, a mariachi band of mice would march around you playing. No idea why that popped into my head.

This would actually be funny. And as long as it is entirely cosmetic I think some players will be happy to pay with real money for a limited use, elaborate and extensive death animation. Even ones involving mariachi bands, New Orleans funeral marches and conga rats.

But if they are told: "you were defeated. Wait 5 minutes in purgatory before you can continue. Unless you pay $1,99 for this special doodad that will give you five charges of instant recovery" then you can expect riots and angry rants to break out all over a game.

SW:TOR did something like that in its move to cash grab. I mean free to p(l)ay. Players not on a subscription had to buy a monthly pass to give unlimited rezzes (the system where subsequent rezzes within a certain timeframe had longer and longer dealas still applied). Players were not impressed by this 'quality of life' real mony shop offer. To say the least.

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Nadira wrote:
Nadira wrote:

Project_Hero wrote:
That would be great for some kind of magic task force or big mission. In stead of going to a hospital you end up in the underworld and need to fight your way out and back to your party.
This won't work though, unless it is triggered by a total party wipe. And even then the players will most likely bitterly resent it.
Remember how players used to hate on the few missions where they would be transported to a prison rather than the hospital?
Just forcing a single player to make a lengthy and time consuming detour before they can join up with the group again will most likely result in the group falling apart. The players still in the mission will not want to wait for ten or fifteen minutes (in SW:TOR there were these cut scenes in group missions that told the story and usualy gave the players the chance to earn a few social points. Regularly players starting an alt would throw a hissy fit when another player in their group wanted to actually take the fifteen /seconds/ to follow the unfolding story rather than escape out of it. Often to the point of quitting in rage or kicking the offending player out of the group for 'slowing everybody down'.

I used to like ending up in the prisons. It was neat, and none of the group's I ever ran with seemed to mind. Though I did mostly run with fellow RPers so that might have something to do with it.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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For a moment this reminded me

For a moment this reminded me of a discussion about IGC sinks a year or so ago. Seems most everyone agree we need them, but no one wants them wherever we're talking about having one.

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Hmm. If you drop in a mission

Hmm. If you drop in a mission you could have an IGC cost to revive at mission start, then get a debuff so next time you drop it's more IGC to revive at mission start, rinse and repeat

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Hero_Zero wrote:
Hero_Zero wrote:

For a moment this reminded me of a discussion about IGC sinks a year or so ago. Seems most everyone agree we need them, but no one wants them wherever we're talking about having one.

Yup. Totally a case of NIMBYism that seems to reach BANANA proportions (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone) levels of staunch opposition to having any IGC sinks that actually have even a smidgeon of efficacy at their designed purpose.


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Kittens and puppies and

Kittens and puppies and ferrets ... oh, my!

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Nadira wrote:
Nadira wrote:

Project_Hero wrote:
That would be great for some kind of magic task force or big mission. In stead of going to a hospital you end up in the underworld and need to fight your way out and back to your party.
This won't work though, unless it is triggered by a total party wipe. And even then the players will most likely bitterly resent it.
Remember how players used to hate on the few missions where they would be transported to a prison rather than the hospital?
Just forcing a single player to make a lengthy and time consuming detour before they can join up with the group again will most likely result in the group falling apart. The players still in the mission will not want to wait for ten or fifteen minutes (in SW:TOR there were these cut scenes in group missions that told the story and usualy gave the players the chance to earn a few social points. Regularly players starting an alt would throw a hissy fit when another player in their group wanted to actually take the fifteen /seconds/ to follow the unfolding story rather than escape out of it. Often to the point of quitting in rage or kicking the offending player out of the group for 'slowing everybody down'.

I don't recall people hating the prison. They just hated not knowing it was a prison mission, as they then, wouldn't know, "Do I stay and wait for a rez, use a wakie, or go to prison"

If they didn't know, they would end up thinking "I can hospital it and be back in no time!" Sent to prison! "I guess not!"

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Nadira wrote:
Nadira wrote:

Radiac wrote:
I wasn't thinking that the hospital staff NPC would hit you up to do missions as soon as you rez at the hospital. Just that those missions would exist, you'd know about it because it'd be part of the game, and you'd be aware that you could improve your rez experience in some way by doing the missions. They could be dailies, or an arc, or something. Also, I was envisioning that there'd be multiple different hospital locations, and that you'd always get sent to a random one, so that you'd have a reason to want to get all of the hospital content from all of the different places done as often as needed to keep your rep points more or less maxxed, lest you get defeated and wake up at a place you have low rep at.
This would cause people to have more content to do for some tangible gain, even if it is just the quality of the public rez option for your toon, and as such t would encourage people to not get defeated, so as to keep their rep maxxed and not have to do the hosp content again. It's like playing DnD and getting a cool scroll or one-use item like a Lightning Javelin. You tend to want to hold onto it way too much and not use it, lest it need to be replaced.
I am afraid that most players will see this not as an optional mission but a mandatory one, which I think defeats the purpose of this proposal.

Mandatory how? For one thing it only affects you if you get defeated, which you're going to try to avoid happening in the first place. For another, you'll always be able to rez at a hospital, all this would do is make that experience better or worse based on rep with the particular hospital in question. Thirdly, if people like the good rez SO much that they consider it necessary to do the content, then more people will do more content. What's so bad about that? The argument "you're making it mandatory for people to do content" makes no sense to me, because doing content is like 90% of the game, isn't it. A CoT player complaining that they have a reason to do content is like a DnD player going "Wait, you expect me to FIGHT the ogres!?!? I didn't sign up for this, I'm out..."

Also, people who have their own personal lair or SG that has a hospital (which I assume will exist), would have the option of using that instead of the "public option" of the hospital. So it could be argued that a lot of players will totally ignore the hospital missions too.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I don't recall people hating the prison. They just hated not knowing it was a prison mission, as they then, wouldn't know, "Do I stay and wait for a rez, use a wakie, or go to prison"

If they didn't know, they would end up thinking "I can hospital it and be back in no time!" Sent to prison! "I guess not!"

I never hated the "prison cell" missions as a concept. I always thought there should be times when your character could get captured and have to brake out. It's a classic superhero trope.

The part that was annoying about them was the actual breaking down of the door to the prison cell; they took the same amount to damage to "kill" no matter what type of character you were playing. Most Scrappers or Blasters could usually smash them open in just a couple of minutes. But I remember early on playing with low-level Controllers where it could literally take like 10+ minutes to finally do enough damage to pop the cell door. That was pretty sucky all thing considered.

All I would ask for CoT is to consider making things like the HP strength of prison doors be dynamic based on the circumstances. If I'm soloing with a low-level DPS output build there's no reason to make things like that be any more painful than necessary. I'd bet most people wouldn't mind the "prison" missions as long as the initial door wasn't so annoying to break. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I was often amused, the

I was often amused, the Second time I went to 'prison' and the door was already defeated.

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I was often amused, the Second time I went to 'prison' and the door was already defeated.

Yeah clearly those doors were only spawned once when the mission was generated. If anything you'd think they'd at least "fix" the old door to keep you locked in again.

While responding here I just remembered that funny scene that from the classic James Bond movie Goldfinger. At first they had Bond locked in a cell with one inept guard. Bond quickly tricks that guy and he get out of the cell. They soon recapture Bond and throw him back in the same prison cell but this time they had three guys watching him so he couldn't trick any of them. Maybe CoT should do something like that - just make the multiple guys real weak so that pretty much anyone could kill them regardless. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

All I would ask for CoT is to consider making things like the HP strength of prison doors be dynamic based on the circumstances. If I'm soloing with a low-level DPS output build there's no reason to make things like that be any more painful than necessary. I'd bet most people wouldn't mind the "prison" missions as long as the initial door wasn't so annoying to break. ;)

Or there could be more than one way to open a locked door...


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Or there could be more than one way to open a locked door...

I'm in love with him T.T.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Or there could be more than one way to open a locked door...

Sure... having multiple ways to open a prison door would be a realistic alternative that was not possible in CoH. I have no doubt that Superman could bust through any door quicker than Batman but Batman should be clever enough to know how to disable the door lock electronics or if worse came to worse just pick the lock. ;)

This case mostly boils down to overall game enjoyment. I don't mind things that are "hard" to do or figure out but I do mind things that are merely "tedious" to do. Standing still and pressing random buttons 10,000 times just to open a door is not my idea of "fun activity" in a MMO.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

This case mostly boils down to overall game enjoyment. I don't mind things that are "hard" to do or figure out but I do mind things that are merely "tedious" to do. Standing still and pressing random buttons 10,000 times just to open a door is not my idea of "fun activity" in a MMO.

Definitely not the plan.


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I was playing a blaster once

I was playing a blaster once side kicked to a much higher team. Died. Went to prison. Died again when the door blew up... Not a fun experience.

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Something like finding the

Something like finding the key or different part of the code which will unlock it ? :)

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I was often amused, the Second time I went to 'prison' and the door was already defeated.

A little less amused when, as a lowly illusion controller, I was dumped in the ONE cell that still had a door.

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Nadira wrote:
Nadira wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I was often amused, the Second time I went to 'prison' and the door was already defeated.

A little less amused when, as a lowly illusion controller, I was dumped in the ONE cell that still had a door.

LOL Yes, yes! Stun the door, now Blind it! Now make with the Illusionary Damage, convince the inanimate object that it's being destroyed! A half-hour later... Ah-hah! You're free! Meanwhile, your team has destroyed everything, grabbed all the loot and, if you Hurry, there might be a chunk of the end-boss that needs to be Confused into punching itself in the head.

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

LOL Yes, yes! Stun the door, now Blind it! Now make with the Illusionary Damage, convince the inanimate object that it's being destroyed!

The ugly downside to aesthetic decoupling.


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It would be interesting if

It would be interesting if there was multiple options for how you "revived". Now my Characters intended background its doubtable that they would willingly go to a hospital but before what would be total death if it wasn't instantaneous of course they would likely attempt to extract either by say creating obscurement so they could retreat critically wounded etc maybe alternative death animations or options would be nice.

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Deathwatch101 wrote:
Deathwatch101 wrote:

It would be interesting if there was multiple options for how you "revived". Now my Characters intended background its doubtable that they would willingly go to a hospital but before what would be total death if it wasn't instantaneous of course they would likely attempt to extract either by say creating obscurement so they could retreat critically wounded etc maybe alternative death animations or options would be nice.

I think this is more reason to farm for reputation with different emergency care providers.

If anyone has started watching The Punisher on Netflix, in episode 12 Frank Castle has to rely on the reputation he built with someone to avoid being shipped to a hospital after he lost consciousness. And that's all I'm going to say about that to avoid spoilers.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

LOL Yes, yes! Stun the door, now Blind it! Now make with the Illusionary Damage, convince the inanimate object that it's being destroyed!

On that point I'd honestly recommend that inanimate objects (that can't/won't fight back) simply be unaffected by Mez Effects that are designed to modify action by animate opponents. Sleep a door? It's already "asleep" before you attacked it. Debuff a door's Perception stat? Its Perception stat is already zero by default. And so on and so forth.

There are two ways to implement this, for the purposes of what City of Heroes called "Containment" as per Controllers, in which you do double damage to targets that are under a status (Mez) effect of some sort. One is to simply put "immunities" on inanimate objects such that they are completely unaffected by Mez at all. The other option is to begin with the assumption that inanimate objects are permanently affected by ALL Mez effects at all times (so no need to add any) and that any additional Mez effects put onto inanimate objects are, in effect, REDUNDANT and therefore "meaningless" in terms of generating additional advantages. So, basically ... how empty is the glass? Completely empty, half empty, half full, or already full (and you can't add more)? Given the options, I'm thinking that taking the "inanimate objects are already perma-Mezzed" choice makes the most sense, in the context of needing to check for flags for the purposes of increasing damage when a target is already Mezzed. That way, you don't need to Hold/Slow/Immobilize/Sleep a door object before using Telekinesis/Levitate in order to smash it with Physical damage for extra damage.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Fireheart wrote:
LOL Yes, yes! Stun the door, now Blind it! Now make with the Illusionary Damage, convince the inanimate object that it's being destroyed!
On that point I'd honestly recommend that inanimate objects (that can't/won't fight back) simply be unaffected by Mez Effects that are designed to modify action by animate opponents. Sleep a door? It's already "asleep" before you attacked it. Debuff a door's Perception stat? Its Perception stat is already zero by default. And so on and so forth.
There are two ways to implement this, for the purposes of what City of Heroes called "Containment" as per Controllers, in which you do double damage to targets that are under a status (Mez) effect of some sort. One is to simply put "immunities" on inanimate objects such that they are completely unaffected by Mez at all. The other option is to begin with the assumption that inanimate objects are permanently affected by ALL Mez effects at all times (so no need to add any) and that any additional Mez effects put onto inanimate objects are, in effect, REDUNDANT and therefore "meaningless" in terms of generating additional advantages. So, basically ... how empty is the glass? Completely empty, half empty, half full, or already full (and you can't add more)? Given the options, I'm thinking that taking the "inanimate objects are already perma-Mezzed" choice makes the most sense, in the context of needing to check for flags for the purposes of increasing damage when a target is already Mezzed. That way, you don't need to Hold/Slow/Immobilize/Sleep a door object before using Telekinesis/Levitate in order to smash it with Physical damage for extra damage.

Under the hood that is how it works. If an object doesn’t have the parameters to affect, there is nothing to affect. No Power Meter? Debuffing Power doesn’t do anything. No Movement paramter? Debuffing movement doesn’t do anything.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
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Say it with me, Peeps!

Say it with me, Peeps!

"Kittens and puppies and ferrets ... OH, MY!"

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What if you are in fact the

What if you are in fact the one under 'mez' effects and you are lead to believe that this 'door' is impeding your progress when in fact it is not a door, it is a security guard. ha ha!
Ever been unconscious and not feel totally 'with it' when you wake up? Your mind compensates and lies to your cognitive self until a responsible entity reasserts control (or the drugs wear off).

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Sounds like a scripted event

Sounds like a scripted event/cutscene, rather than something that would happen "normally" during standard gameplay.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
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As long as I can pop a wakie

As long as I can pop a wakie and get back in the fight..I'm ok.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Nope. They don't say as real as in comics. :p They say real as in real world. It's been stated many times on these forums. "Oh! Look! Everything should be realistic! Like melee fighting should look boring and not entertaining like in a movie or comics!"

:p

Though, when it comes to reviving, it seems to be a different tone. "Yay! Medi-porter! All death is meaningless! Makes no sense that people are worried with the highly available tech!" :p

These are also the same people who likely said things like "Hellions are weak. They can't even take a bag from an old lady!" on the CoH forums :p

Though, I do like the idea of fighting our way out of the underworld to revive without a revive power! :)

death is meaningless, we are heroes.

when statesman was killed, the villains had a medi port jammer. not easy or cheap, but they had planned for it. that simple

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ivanhedgehog wrote:
ivanhedgehog wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Nope. They don't say as real as in comics. :p They say real as in real world. It's been stated many times on these forums. "Oh! Look! Everything should be realistic! Like melee fighting should look boring and not entertaining like in a movie or comics!"

:p

Though, when it comes to reviving, it seems to be a different tone. "Yay! Medi-porter! All death is meaningless! Makes no sense that people are worried with the highly available tech!" :p

These are also the same people who likely said things like "Hellions are weak. They can't even take a bag from an old lady!" on the CoH forums :p

Though, I do like the idea of fighting our way out of the underworld to revive without a revive power! :)

death is meaningless, we are heroes.

when statesman was killed, the villains had a medi port jammer. not easy or cheap, but they had planned for it. that simple

I don't recall that part being in the story. Did you just make it up as your own head canon?

That aside, no, death is meaningless, because we play an MMO and we'll never truely die. That doesn't mean from a story standpoint, one can't. :p

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:
ivanhedgehog wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Nope. They don't say as real as in comics. :p They say real as in real world. It's been stated many times on these forums. "Oh! Look! Everything should be realistic! Like melee fighting should look boring and not entertaining like in a movie or comics!"

:p

Though, when it comes to reviving, it seems to be a different tone. "Yay! Medi-porter! All death is meaningless! Makes no sense that people are worried with the highly available tech!" :p

These are also the same people who likely said things like "Hellions are weak. They can't even take a bag from an old lady!" on the CoH forums :p

Though, I do like the idea of fighting our way out of the underworld to revive without a revive power! :)

death is meaningless, we are heroes.

when statesman was killed, the villains had a medi port jammer. not easy or cheap, but they had planned for it. that simple

I don't recall that part being in the story. Did you just make it up as your own head canon?

That aside, no, death is meaningless, because we play an MMO and we'll never truely die. That doesn't mean from a story standpoint, one can't. :p

Regardless if death is meaningless, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be penalizing. Maybe not in the same way it was in CoH at the start with XP debt.. that was a rough go, especially for soloers. But a good death penalty can add to the fun of a game.

ivanhedgehog
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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:
ivanhedgehog wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Nope. They don't say as real as in comics. :p They say real as in real world. It's been stated many times on these forums. "Oh! Look! Everything should be realistic! Like melee fighting should look boring and not entertaining like in a movie or comics!"

:p

Though, when it comes to reviving, it seems to be a different tone. "Yay! Medi-porter! All death is meaningless! Makes no sense that people are worried with the highly available tech!" :p

These are also the same people who likely said things like "Hellions are weak. They can't even take a bag from an old lady!" on the CoH forums :p

Though, I do like the idea of fighting our way out of the underworld to revive without a revive power! :)

death is meaningless, we are heroes.

when statesman was killed, the villains had a medi port jammer. not easy or cheap, but they had planned for it. that simple

I don't recall that part being in the story. Did you just make it up as your own head canon?

That aside, no, death is meaningless, because we play an MMO and we'll never truely die. That doesn't mean from a story standpoint, one can't. :p

its an easy enough explanation for the deaths of major characters. I dont recall the devs ever explaining it. but dont use that as a reason to get rid of mediport.
COH had wakies/rez/hospital run. they worked fine together. We dont need to be punished for dying, the fact that we werent really punished in coh mad the game a better place. Not near as many rage quits after 1 death, people were willing to push the envelope more.

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deksam wrote:
deksam wrote:
Brand X wrote:
ivanhedgehog wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Nope. They don't say as real as in comics. :p They say real as in real world. It's been stated many times on these forums. "Oh! Look! Everything should be realistic! Like melee fighting should look boring and not entertaining like in a movie or comics!"

:p

Though, when it comes to reviving, it seems to be a different tone. "Yay! Medi-porter! All death is meaningless! Makes no sense that people are worried with the highly available tech!" :p

These are also the same people who likely said things like "Hellions are weak. They can't even take a bag from an old lady!" on the CoH forums :p

Though, I do like the idea of fighting our way out of the underworld to revive without a revive power! :)

death is meaningless, we are heroes.

when statesman was killed, the villains had a medi port jammer. not easy or cheap, but they had planned for it. that simple

I don't recall that part being in the story. Did you just make it up as your own head canon?

That aside, no, death is meaningless, because we play an MMO and we'll never truely die. That doesn't mean from a story standpoint, one can't. :p

Regardless if death is meaningless, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be penalizing. Maybe not in the same way it was in CoH at the start with XP debt.. that was a rough go, especially for soloers. But a good death penalty can add to the fun of a game.

If you want to play iron man, feel free. I see no reason to inflict it on everyone else. Add fun? does death penaties add fun for pvpers or pveers? Not for me at least.

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ivanhedgehog wrote:
ivanhedgehog wrote:

If you want to play iron man, feel free. I see no reason to inflict it on everyone else. Add fun? does death penaties add fun for pvpers or pveers? Not for me at least.

Actually, yes it does. Or should I say that a lack of a death penalty has been shown to reduce fun.

It's all about risk versus reward, adding stress, fear of loss, thrill of victory and stimulating the the brain. Furthermore, implementing a death penalty it is also a way to prevent players from treating death and resurrection as an attractive alternative to fighting or "taking the long way around". If you would care to read the contents of this thread and the several other threads on the subject, you would see this has been discussed at great depth. But the audience is still split regardless. There are some, and that could include you ivanhedgehog, who want no death penalty whatsoever; to just pop back up and continue playing. Let me be on the record of saying I do not want that.

CoT will have reserves and whether or not we can direct our reserves or we just get what we get at random, there will still be "wakies" in CoT. I think this is a good thing. I think the implementation of "wakies" is an integral part of the feel of CoX and should be implemented in CoT. But let's be clear that using a "wakie" is not a penalty-free option. Every "wakie" we have is the product of an investment of momentum and time; and once used it is gone. "Wakies" are a simulation of someone getting a second wind, and I'm okay with that; especially since getting one is never a guarantee.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
ivanhedgehog wrote:

If you want to play iron man, feel free. I see no reason to inflict it on everyone else. Add fun? does death penaties add fun for pvpers or pveers? Not for me at least.

Actually, yes it does. Or should I say that a lack of a death penalty has been shown to reduce fun.

.

shown to reduce fun for some people. not all

some people like to hang themselves from the ceiling with fish hooks, no accounting for everyones taste.
If you wish to punish yourself for dying, you can choose not to play the character that died for a week while he recovers. Maybe the devs canallow you to set the level of your own death penatly. Maybe a setting that allows 4 choices, 25,50,75,100 percent. It would decide how severe your penalty is. No need to change rewards because you already get rewarded for increased difficulty. Choices for everyone.

Huckleberry
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ivanhedgehog wrote:
ivanhedgehog wrote:

Maybe the devs canallow you to set the level of your own death penatly. Maybe a setting that allows 4 choices, 25,50,75,100 percent. It would decide how severe your penalty is. No need to change rewards because you already get rewarded for increased difficulty. Choices for everyone.

This intrigues me.

Two questions:

  1. What would you suggest those are percentages of?
  2. Why would you suggest that the severity of death penalty has no effect on rewards for success?

I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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ivanhedgehog wrote:
ivanhedgehog wrote:
deksam wrote:
Brand X wrote:
ivanhedgehog wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Nope. They don't say as real as in comics. :p They say real as in real world. It's been stated many times on these forums. "Oh! Look! Everything should be realistic! Like melee fighting should look boring and not entertaining like in a movie or comics!"

:p

Though, when it comes to reviving, it seems to be a different tone. "Yay! Medi-porter! All death is meaningless! Makes no sense that people are worried with the highly available tech!" :p

These are also the same people who likely said things like "Hellions are weak. They can't even take a bag from an old lady!" on the CoH forums :p

Though, I do like the idea of fighting our way out of the underworld to revive without a revive power! :)

death is meaningless, we are heroes.

when statesman was killed, the villains had a medi port jammer. not easy or cheap, but they had planned for it. that simple

I don't recall that part being in the story. Did you just make it up as your own head canon?

That aside, no, death is meaningless, because we play an MMO and we'll never truely die. That doesn't mean from a story standpoint, one can't. :p

Regardless if death is meaningless, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be penalizing. Maybe not in the same way it was in CoH at the start with XP debt.. that was a rough go, especially for soloers. But a good death penalty can add to the fun of a game.

If you want to play iron man, feel free. I see no reason to inflict it on everyone else. Add fun? does death penaties add fun for pvpers or pveers? Not for me at least.

Death penalties are fun in the sense that without them failure means nothing. Penalties can range from restarting a level over to permadeath of your character.

If you believe that nothing should have consequences, you're not really playing a game... there are no heroes without villains, and no heroic deeds without stakes involved. *shrug* I like games to be tougher than most, Cuphead is a recent game that was near perfect on my list in terms of polish, gameplay and difficulty.

XP debt was not a fun penalty in CoH, but that doesn't mean there should be zero penalties. What fun is that?

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The devs have already stated

The devs have already stated that the time it takes to die and come back to the fight is punishment enough right now. And honestly? That's fine.

A LOT of multiplayer online games have that exact penatly: you don't really get to play the game for several moments, sometimes minutes because of travel times. That's a pretty big penatly. Why? Because it's a "waste of time" and that alone is a very large penalty.

deksam
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MeSoSollyWan wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

The devs have already stated that the time it takes to die and come back to the fight is punishment enough right now. And honestly? That's fine.

A LOT of multiplayer online games have that exact penatly: you don't really get to play the game for several moments, sometimes minutes because of travel times. That's a pretty big penatly. Why? Because it's a "waste of time" and that alone is a very large penalty.

I believe that can be an adequate penalty. It depends though, on the details. For example, in some games, if you die while fighting a world boss and don't make it back in time to actually kill it, you forego most if not all of the rewards.

Then, of course, Super Hero games differ from other games generally, because travel times are much less when you can fly, or run super fast.

And if there is instanced content, will dying close the instance, or restart you at the beginning? If it restarts you, will enemies respawn or will it respawn you but the enemies you've defeated stay that way?

MeSoSollyWan
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deksam wrote:
deksam wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

The devs have already stated that the time it takes to die and come back to the fight is punishment enough right now. And honestly? That's fine.

A LOT of multiplayer online games have that exact penatly: you don't really get to play the game for several moments, sometimes minutes because of travel times. That's a pretty big penatly. Why? Because it's a "waste of time" and that alone is a very large penalty.

I believe that can be an adequate penalty. It depends though, on the details. For example, in some games, if you die while fighting a world boss and don't make it back in time to actually kill it, you forego most if not all of the rewards.

Then, of course, Super Hero games differ from other games generally, because travel times are much less when you can fly, or run super fast.

And if there is instanced content, will dying close the instance, or restart you at the beginning? If it restarts you, will enemies respawn or will it respawn you but the enemies you've defeated stay that way?

First, at lower levels in Co* it could take several to a few minutes to get back to your mission/zone if you died. Certain zones in Co* didn't have hospitals, and in the lower levels (at launch) there were no travel powers, only Sprint. So if you died sometimes it'd take time to "zone" you out to hospital, then you'd have to Sprint back to your mission zone, only to then "zone" into that actual area, then you'd have to Sprint to wherever in that zone was your actual team and/or mission. It could really take a long time. It got better as your level got higher (as it should) but it was never convenient to die and have to hosp away to a different area completely.

Second, great questions. I'd have to presume that for solo, instanced missions it'd work at least similar to Co* wherein the mission would not reset itself if you still had it selected as "active" and remained logged in. And even if you got booted off the server, and logged back in immediately your mission would not be reset. There was a timer on it for if you had logged out, and the timer could be manually reset if you switched "active" missions.

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