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There's tons of examples of brown skinned, brown eyed, brown haired characters in comics. The list is long, the popularity is small.
That's the difference. The reason itself, is back to guessing, who wasn't buying those comics. The one's the were being made for.
It was white boys generally buying them.
Look at the opening weekend of Black Panther. Over a third of the audience was white, which was generally in line with the audience going to the MCU. All Black Panther did, was get more of the black audience to show up than is normal for a movie.
Now, get them to do that with the comics and not just the movies, as there are lots of black superheroes, they just aren't as popular as others.
Hell, white boy Iron Man was not a popular comic (known, but considered a B-lister) hero until the movies. Which you've been told many times.
In fact, they did an interview and they even started with "If we were to make a cinematic universe, which hero should we start with, and it can't be Spider-Man." and they had to think on it. :p The Avengers themselves, was Marvel creating a team of their B-List comic heroes.
As for back to your statement, you were all about "Will someone think about the minority? They need a hero!" to which I pointed out, there's less white, blonde, blue eyed people in the US. Because obviously, the heroes to read, have to be exactly like you.
Which, doesn't make to much sense, considering Harry Potter is popular and seems to go through the race lines with an all white main cast and British. So, all the American's going "Yay! Stories about British wizards!"
Make new heroes, give them good art and story and all will go well. Spawn is a black hero and was popular for quite awhile. Though I can't point to the exact time his popularity died down, but my guess would be when Todd took less personal involvement in the book.
Again the reason comics aren't popular with those not already buying them is because comics do not advertise outside of comic stores.
And comic stores tend to be rather unwelcoming to those who are traditionally not comic buyers like minorities and women.
If comics advertised like movies and the places to buy them wasn't full of gatekeeping toxic people you'd probably have a lot more people the diverse comics are aimed at buying comics.
I don't see what Iron Man's popularity or lack thereof has to do with anything. Generally white male comics fans weren't picking up his book because they were picking up other books starting white men.
I never said they had to look exactly like you but black people like to see and read things with black people in them. Asians like to see and read things with Asians in them etc. And there are again many examples of blonde haired blue eyed heroes; Captain America, Thor, Sentry (at least I think Sentry), Super Girl, Star Girl, Wonder Girl, etc.
Harry Potter is aimed at young people, which is why the characters are young people. It is mostly aimed at young boys which is why the main character is a young boy. Again you do not have to be exactly like a character I don't know where you pulled this hyperbole from.
And yes, Spawn was popular for a time because he was Dark and Edgy in a time where Dark and Edgy sold well.
Yeah, you can make new characters, I even hear Ironheart is getting her own solo series, but wait she was just an SJW replacement of iron man, wasn't she? Those kind of things are never popular. But popular enough to get her own solo series I guess.
And Blue Beetle Jaime Reyes was a more diverse replacement for Ted Cord and he seems popular enough.
Gee... If only there was something we could learn from this... Maybe like... I don't know... You can replace a white hero for a more diverse one and it can work or you can make an entirely new character and that would work too.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
You're right. Replace the unpopular ones. Which, is what I said to do with Miles. Scarlet Spider.
Blue Beetle was not a popular one.
See. Replace the unpopular ones and make them popular. Spider-Man. Iron Man. Thor. Supergirl. Already popular. :p
I will put money on Riri not making it out of the Teens for issue numbers before it tanks so hard they cancel it.. or every single article is "wtf, this sold 10 copies why isn't it cancelled?"
Her origin story is the dumbest thing ever. I actually LIKE her suit design, but her story is dumb.
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Iceman - Cancelled
Champions - Cancelled
Gwen Pool - Cancelled (i actually didnt hate this one)
America - Cancelled
Cyborg - Cancelled
Lady Thor - Killed off
Jessica Jones - Cancelled
Turning Captain America into a Nazi - retconned because F that.
Hawkeye(lady version) - Cancelled
Luke Cage - Cancelled
Falcon - Cancelled
The last two actually make me sad... because those are original strong characters.
You dont need to "diversify" white characters to get new readers. The more you try to mess with the big name heroes... the lower sales will go.
If...if... Ironheart isn't an attempt to replace tony stark in the mcu it might go okay.
if.... and they might try... to replace iron man in the mcu....... its going to be a dumpster fire.
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I believe the rumor is, Panther's sister would be the MCU's Riri and become Iron Heart. Rumor is all it is though.
Never even gave Gwen Pool a chance myself. Nice outfit, the character just didn't appeal.
Thor I wasn't going to get into. Sorry. It's his name. Not even his hero name, but his actual name. "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor." Possess the power of Thor, but take his name. :p
That all said, when it comes to change, I've not cared for all the Cyber Force changes either and that didn't change any race. So, sometimes changes just suck :p
Eric Masterson was Thor once before eventually having his own name in Thunderstrike.
So, like... It's not like someone else taking on the name of Thor is a new thing.
And Beta Ray Bill has apparently been known as Beta Ray Thor too... So you know.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Both before my time. So, I can't tell if the fans loved the change or not back then. Doesn't seem so by a quick wiki. Well with Eric anyways. Beta Ray Thor, isn't calling him Thor, it's calling him Beta Ray Thor. If Jane became Lady Thor, then you would've heard less complaints about her taking over. They didn't do that, they wanted her to just be Thor.
There would have been just as much complaining, I bet.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
The "diversity of the group" could have been increased by simply ADDING a new non-white guy to that group. There's no need for REPLACEMENT to gain that if diversity is your only goal. Sadly I'm starting to think racial reparations in "comic book form" is your ACTUAL goal here.
Regardless your INANE OBSESSION with REPLACING characters where new ones could easily be ADDED continues to infuriate the absolute shit out of me and ALWAYS will.
So ADD a new diverse character for that person to look up to. Why is this concept so incredibly impossible for you to understand?
I'm really getting sick and tired of being "tacitly accused" of being a racist when I've made it abundantly clear at least a DOZEN different ways on this thread alone that I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with there being minority superheroes in comic books.
My only "problem" here is that I am sane enough to realize you can have minority characters in comic books WITHOUT HAVING TO REMOVE original white ones in the process. GOD DAMN IT for like the 50th time this is NOT A ZERO-SUM GAME!!!!!! YOU do NOT have to REPLACE characters in order to give NEW ones a chance! When will you get that through your apparently very thick skull?
I have absolutely no problem with changing all sort of things in "What If" stories precisely because the original versions of things/characters are by definition left completely unmolested. You do understand why that's fundamentally different than permanently co-opting an original classic character don't you?
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
It's funny you guys brought up Ironheart. While it might seem casually obvious that the Ironheart character is simply an attempt to create a "black female" version of Iron Man there's actually more to this character than that. To be clear I have no problem with the generic idea of a BRAND NEW character like this that happens to be a "diverse spin-off" of a long standing character...
But sadly in this specific case [url=https://splinternews.com/marvel-s-already-disrespecting-its-new-black-female-sup-1793861366]she's likely just a complete rip-off[/url] of a Japanese "parody porno" released back in 2014:
[img=400x400]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61-euki-%2BfL._SL1000_.jpg[/img]
Let's just say Marvel should have done some better research to avoid such an embarrassment. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Riri got flack because the idea was for her to become Iron Man. To which they not only wanted to replace Tony, they wanted to have Riri take on the title of Iron Man. Which, was considered a great idea by the same group of people who don't think mankind means both women and men, but taking over the role of a white male, they were on board with. :p
Iron Man as he's known is a male looking suit. If she had an Iron Man suit and a voice changer to sound male then it would make for a really good secret ID. Who would believe Iron Man was actually now a lady?
Honestly it's a pretty good idea and if I can I will definitely make a female character who's hero ID is a man.
I have no idea where you get you delusions about things like "people who don't think mankind means both women and men" pretty sure everyone knows what it means, but some might prefer the more neutral of Humankind.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Anyone who says "...and mankind." which is tagged on by someone else with the comment "And womankind."
It's an eye rolling moment. Seen it in fiction and seen it in real life and it always made the one who said it, annoying. :p
I will agree it makes for a great cover. Heroes Unlimited had a character that was a man who's outfit made him look like a woman, to help keep his identity secret.
That's not how they worked out the Iron Man story line though and the public knows who Iron Man is.
One of my favorite alts in CoH was a male who was living his life as his dead twin sister. Changing him/her up though in CoT :)
The public knows who Iron Man is, cool, even better cover as they'll think it's some kind of drone or something.
And yeah, that's not how they worked out the story because a bunch of nerds complained.
Because nerds want things that are fresh and original but still exactly like they used to be.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Also on the subject of replacing heroes... What do you think reboots do?
Hey that Superman you know? Here's an entirely new one. Different history, different costume, he's pretty much a completely different character. But he's still superficially the same.
So again I ask, why can't Clark Kent be black?
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Project Hero, I think you're just trolling now. I'd advise everyone else to refrain from feeding you.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Taken from the "has a different opinion = trolling" school of thought I see.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Well then, good to see you agree that skin color doesn't matter, so Black Panther can be white with no issues what so ever.
Sure, if you ignore history completely. In a complete vacuum this would be fine.
So here, I'll make you a deal. We'll change Black Panther and all the other heroes of color white, but change all the white heroes into people of color, yeah? I mean, PoC heroes are well represented according to you and some others so this shouldn't have any kind of negative effect, right?
Edit: oh, and as for why it's not really the same... Let's just say that white people have a bit of a bad history when it comes to taking something African and making it their own.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
POC's have a far worse record on slave trade if you want to go there............
Arab slave trade: From the 7th century until around the 1960s.... so only 1300 years.... but sure, lets hate oh the transatlantic slave trade.
Transatlantic Slave trade coming to the USA area... 245 years. i mean... its 1100 years short of the Arabs.. but screw white ppl am i right?
Black people are still taking slaves... but thats okay, because the slavers arnt white... though light skinned slaves are worth more... should totally have a march for equality on slave worth.... https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/06/the-country-where-slavery-is-still-normal/241148/
Lets all go protest all these modern White nations where slavery is super duper still happening
The countries with the highest estimated prevalence of modern slavery by the proportion of their population are North Korea, Uzbekistan, Cambodia, India, and Qatar. Those countries with the highest absolute numbers of people in modern slavery are India, China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Uzbekistan.
Oh... well they arn't white so its cool, ignore them. Lets make Captain America Trans instead, cuz screw white guys!
Since we are on a hate train for White guys... I think we should look at the slave trade numbers just to show how evil all the current living white slavers are.
How many of these 10.7 million Africans captured and sold on the Transatlantic Slave trade were shipped directly to North America? Only about 388,000....... Well that cant be right... we will ignore that number. Totally need to make Wonderwoman polynesian because i dont think they are represented enough.
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Yeah those other places are totally relevant when talking about relations between America and Africa and their peoples
See, this thing is worse so therefore the shit that happened in this country doesn't matter! Perfect. 10/10.
Also, Captain America can be trans and still a white guy.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
This entire thread you have argued that white characters don't matter but POC characters do....
You have argued that white people have done bad things and so don't deserve??? whatever it is they dont deserve.
You claim that changing black panther white isnt the same as changing captain america black.... its the exact same.
You seem to make arguements that 14% of the worlds population (white people) don't deserve to keep something they made... but then argue that white people are terrible for participating in the slave trade.......... A TRADE THEY DIDNT START... and ended... before most other ethnic groups.
You don't even see the biggest red flag of this entire thing over multiple threads.
No one.... no one agrees with you. People who roleplay gay, trans, space alien robots..... are telling you that your point of view seems super messed up and it really looks like you hate white people.
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No I haven't, and no I haven't.
It's not the same and if you think it is you're wrong. If I had 50 apples and you had 5 and someone took one from each of us would the impact be the same? The -act- is the same but it's effects are worse for one person. That is wholly the difference.
Cool, white people are a minority globally. That would matter if we were talking about globally instead of domestically.
EVERYONE involved in the slave trade (bar the slaves being traded, obviously) are terrible for participating in it. But other slave trades DO NOT MATTER when talking specifically about AMERICA. Christ are you the type of person that when someone says "I'm hungry" you retort with "So? Thousands die of starvation every day!" Like it helps anything?
Ah yes, because other people aren't willing to get into it clearly means that I'm in the wrong. It's not like the majority has ever been in the wrong before... Oh wait what's that you said about a ton of people being involved with the slave trade? Clearly then because a lot of people were for it and saw no problem with it that it clearly wasn't a problem and anyone who spoke up against it was in the wrong.
Top Score! New record! Good job!
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I'm good with it, because it'll prove my point that you're just wrong.
Luke Cage being turned white, won't increase his sales.
Black Panther being turned white, won't increase his sales.
Doing either will likely upset their fan base though.
Turning Batman black, won't increase his sales. Outside of the first few issues, that get a sales boost on the gimmick, after that, sales will drop as fans leave their character.
What you want, is the popular name, that people know, because those heroes took off, not because they were white, but because people found them interesting. Changing them to something else to appeal to a vocal minority group that won't pick up the comic even with the change, will just turn fans away.
That's already been shown to be the case.
As for America and it's cultural appropriation, please. I just traveled through Navajo country and they had billboards saying to do all the things that the online cultural appropriation yellers say they don't want people to do. Buy their stuff, wear their stuff and learn about their stuff.
China doesn't care. They loved seeing the white girl in their cultures dress. It was a vocal group that was likely mostly white leftists complaining. :p
So, want the all mighty dollar, but then yell for people spending it :p That's some lame people.
Cool never mentioned sales.
Learning about the stuff and then being respectful towards the culture isn't cultural appropriation.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
You tend to lump all white people together, but my people never took slaves. The last slaves in France were held by the romans(we can talk reparations later). I cant see a Canadian holding slaves, they would give them a beer and show them hockey. so absolutely no guilt there. As for cultural appropriation... POCs cant sing opera, cant eat hamburgers, listen to classical music or heavy metal. the list goes on and on. If I cant eat guilt free mexican food, they need to lay off of european foods. I guess Italy better stop eating pasta. Cultural appropriation concept is idiotic. When they asek the Australian aboriginies about the $1800 boomerangs, the Aussies wanted to sell a few of their own for that price. They looked at it like we would about someone selling a jewel encrusted crescent wrench. Only white guilt idiots thought that people in a far away continent were being harmed by this malarkey.
"In fact, France abolished slavery twice, in 1794 and in 1848, each time in the midst of revolutionary turmoil."
Lot of Romans in the 18th and 19th century were there?
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
as you are fond of pointing out...you limit discussion to american slavery, slavery by POC is not appropriate for discussion. And, I was wrong slavery in France was abolished in 1315 by Louise X. The laws you referenced were in regard to colonies.
And if you notice I didn't bring up french slavery. Because it has very little to do with slavery in the US.
It's kind of like if we were talking about American eating habits and you were like "Well in Japan..." It's not relevant to the discussion at hand.
All slavery was bad, no one is contesting that but slavery that didn't happen in America has no bearing on how the slaves that were brought over were treated and how the American people have treated those brought over and their descendants since then. It is at best a distractionary tactic and at worst a white supremacist talking point that I should hope that others have taken to just ignorantly regurgitating.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
The point is, I have no guilt for american slavery. None of my ancestors were on this continent when it occurred. So I have no need to apologize for it. We are responsible for our own actions, not those of some person that vaguely resembled us 200 years ago. If you feel that POC have a need for superheroes(other than the many that already exist) feel free to write some. With the popularity of Black Panther, now is an amazing opportunity. If you write a good enough comic, you might cause some of that enthusiasm to generate a whole new market for comics. That in and of itself will leverage the influence that that demographic has on the comic industry. money talks and bullshit walks. nerds have a lot of influence because they are the ones shelling out the money.
It isnt as if there are only 10 spots for welders and you want to see at least 2 of them be left handed, every applicant over 5'10 has a spot, no matter what hand is dominate. Right now would be a great time to create a new, minority super hero.Do it right and it will make you a bundle of money.
If they don't sell, they get cancelled. The point is, changing the hero for PC reasons has kept failing. May have worked in the past when it didn't feel so PC, but it hasn't been working now. Even Miles has been low on the sales.
Also, you didn't pay attention. It wasn't just "Learn about" it was "Buy our stuff" It's the buy our stuff aspect that becomes cultural appropriation, yet all cultures want people to buy their stuff and that includes the white people.
Yet, when they do...whining from a vocal few. :p
Sigh.. I know this is troll feeding and getting off topic but to put somethings in perspective.
“All slavery was bad...” That is good starting common ground. “...has no bearing...”
It has every point. You seem to think this is strictly an American problem (or you only want to address that microcosm without examining the larger picture) that the evil whites did to blacks.
What if we reject the premise and reframed this in to a conversation of people did this to people. And the rules for this sort of thing really haven’t changed that much over time. As Steamtank is pointing out here, almost every group, at one time or another (read not race, but group) did something bad, to someone, somewhere, at some time. Even to themselves. Including slavery. Slavery has documentedly existed since the very beginnings of man. That’s not a proud thing to say but it is a fact. So, everyone on the face of this planet is, with a very high probability, the descendant of both a slave and a slave owner. Sure, Mr. Bot but that all happened in the distant past… That doesn’t count. Really? Ok.. Since the topic is generally America...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servitude
“An indentured servant or indentured laborer is an employee (indenturee) within a system of unfree labor who is bound by a signed or forced contract (indenture) to work for a particular employer for a fixed time.” “...banned by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a form of slavery.”
Maybe you’re thinking ‘Well, that not real slavery.’ Ok. “...was brought by force…” And noted in the above definition forced to sign contract. Also, the infamous Anthony Johnson, well known as one of the first recognized slaveholders, was considered a slave himself. He was in fact an indentured servant. And was also a back man... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_(colonist)
Historian Lerone Bennett, Jr. notes that "Masters given to flogging often did not care whether their victims were black or white."
This system was widely used in many places, not just America.
Slaves could be white or black? Yes… “Between one-half and two-thirds of white immigrants to the American colonies between the 1630s and American Revolution had come under indentures. However, while almost half the European immigrants to the Thirteen Colonies were indentured servants…”
So, if you have roots that go back that far here in America you have a pretty good chance of being a slave yourself. Also, someone had to own them, so that could have been one of your descendants too.
I could go into other farmers / plantation owners in the south that were blacks (there were quite a few), but I don’t think I need to in order to show my point. My point is we are all just people. People treat people well, people treat people poorly. Let’s just agree to treat each other like you would like to be treated and move on.
But this… divisiveness in the name of helping… this is a formula for discord. You can’t tear down one group in an attempt to raise another. It doesn’t work that way. Use the rising tide lifts all ships philosophy. You’ll get further. This isn’t a zero sum game. You can lift up everyone.
Look, I have worked in various different industries doing all kinds of things. I have seen black engineers, businessmen and women, shelf stockers. Blue collar, white collar. All kinds of education levels. One thing I can tell you for certainty, the only thing anyone (bosses / peers) cares about on the job is are you qualified and can you do your job. That’s it. If you can, nobody would care if you were a martian.
I have people I consider to be friends that went through some real (real bad) abuses in other countries by their own governments through no fault of their own. One was white and one was oriental. You can’t know their stories by looking at the color of their skin or their faces. That is just shallow. And after going through all the bad things they went through, one became a PHD in Physics, the other became an excellent Electrical Engineer. You can do it if you want to.
We have been over this time and time again. Certain comics don't see well because they aren't advertised anywhere but within spaces where comics fans already go.
They can not acquire new fans for a product if potential new fans do not know the product is being sold.
Add in the dumb ass way that comics determine if a comic is continued or not (via pre orders) and you have a recipe for failure for pretty much everything except things people are already buying.
The comic industry won't find success with attempting to court new fans if they do not advertise outside of where their fanbase is.
How is Miles Morales Spiderman doing in graphic novel sales?
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
And PWB that was a very informative post. But the reason I say it has no bearing on PoC in America is because although everyone may or may not be descended from both slavers and slaves most of us, did not experience the systematic oppression that black people in America did. The effects of which are still felt today.
So again, other slave trades have very little to do with America's history with slavery. After slaves were freed they were treated as secondary citizens, large groups of people attempted to exterminate them, and the government instilled laws to keep them down. And this stuff is as recent as the 1960's.
Hell, it took Superman to help take down the KKK. I bet if that didn't happen till the modern day people would be complaining that Superman is too political and it's just some SJW bullshit. Or trying to appeal to the PC crowd.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Sorry. In this day and age, anyone who was interested in comics could easily find the hero that's just like them, by using Google. :p
OH MY! LOOK! A LIST OF SUPER HEROES THAT MATCH MY RACE!
Or they could, you know, just go into the comic shop.
Now, let's look at Miles. Been in TV Shows, Movie, mentioned in the news, hyped up with easter egg mention in Spider-Man: HC.
So, his name is out there. His comic book sales still aren't that staggering.
Couldn't find numbers on just the graphic novels. I did find numbers that pointed to Miles Morales as Spider-Man basically dropped compared to Ultimate Peter Parker's sales, which where in decline since they began as well. Though, while Miles couldn't help it at all, my guess is the fact that the rest of the Ultimate Universe was consider crap, didn't help Spider-Man sales.
Why is everyone still arguing with the racist?
Some people simply will never change and will never stop until the thing they hate is removed, replaced, or destroyed.
[color=red]PR Team, Forum Moderator, Live Response Team[/color]
People on this forum won't even Google things before saying something. I can't count how many time the like, first google result countered something someone said... And you think the average person will, on a whim just look up a bunch of characters they have never seen nor heard of? Ok then.
He's been in I think 2 tv shows. Ultimate Spiderman and the latest Spiderman cartoon. Which as I've said before does nothing to indicate that Spiderman is an ongoing comic series or that Miles Morales isn't just a product of the shows he's in. And his mention in HC was in a deleted scene I think? Looked it up, his name is used in a deleted scene with the original alluding to him being in the actual movie.
And they could go into a comic book store, if they can find one and if they're not immediately put off by being made unwelcome there.
Miles has proven popular enough to be kept around and his solo books have garnered positive reviews. So he's kind of a success story.
Also the reason folks probably aren't buying individual issues is because they're too expensive for what you get. Like 3 bucks or more for like what? 22 pages and often times not a complete story. Personally I can blitz through a comic that size in probably like 2-3 minutes. There's just not the value in it that there once was. As far as I can ascertain graphic novel sales continue to rise and comic sales are falling. So it seems it's less that people don't want these characters and more that people don't want to buy individual comic issues.
It's an industry problem.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Go look up the definition of racism please.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Never heard once "As a black man, I feel unwelcome in comic stores." I have heard, "As a woman, I feel as if eyes are on me in a comic store."
Please.
And, as I've said, he's only a success because he couldn't do it on his own without stealing the name Spider-Man.
And now we get into cost. Oh. Okay. So, it's a matter of a small group of people who complain they're not getting a hero just like them (or most likely, people complaining OTHER races don't have popular enough characters) and then unwilling to purchase the comic when it does happen.
If that's the case, why change them again? They're not buying them. So, change the hero of the fans who are buying them, to appease the people who aren't? Talk about poor strategy.
Also, in a comic book game, show, mentioned in a comic book movie. If they're not smart enough to check on that one, it's on them. :p
Well hell. I already figure most don't. Like, racism. You want people to feel like racists, when only 1% of American even owned slaves back in the day. Then you have all those whites who came after that, who get blamed on it.
Then there's the case of John Casor, who was the first black to be considered property to another person (instead of someone owning their term of indentured servitude), with that person being Anthony Johnson, another black man, who went to the supreme court, so he could keep Casor for life.
All I do know, is since it happened WAY before my time, I don't care to be treated as if I had any hand in it, because I didn't and I'm not going to change a way of thinking, just because 1% of the American population (not all white btw) owned slaves.
So, in the end, make new characters that aren't white males. :p That's what I did in CoH, CO, DCUO and will again in CoT. My main is half white half asian. Always has been. :p What about your main?
"discrimination or hatred based on race"
"There's too many white people and they should be replaced."
[color=red]PR Team, Forum Moderator, Live Response Team[/color]
Nice half of a definition.
"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."
So which race am I a part of that I'm advocating the superiority of?
I also never said that. I may have said that there are too many white CHARACTERS but comic book characters aren't people. They're fictional. You can't be racist against a fictional entity. Like, are you that unhinged with reality that you can't tell the difference between fictional characters and actual real people?
Might as well claim I'm racist against elves or goblins.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
"I haven't heard this thing so obviously it doesn't exist."
So he's only successful because he's stealing the name... What you think people buy his comic expecting Peter only to be surprised when it's Miles? He's got fans and his comics get favorable reviews, so I'm going to say no on that.
No idea the size of the group, and there are multiple reasons, we have been over this time and time again and you refuse to see the problems with the industry.
Why change? Because the comic book industry is slowly dying and has been for years. Which is why the big companies keep doing things to try to bring in new readers. Continuing to sell and cater to an ever shrinking reader base will only speed up Comic's slow demise.
No, that's not on them. A lot of people don't know that these comics ARE STILL BEING MADE. There isn't much to tell people that the movies or shows are based on comic books that they could go out and buy right now.
Slavery was only the beginning of the problems. Racist laws and systems have been put in place since slavery was abolished and still effect people to this day. To not see that, or to not care, is to be complicit in the problem.
I don't really have a main. Though a lot of the time I tend to stick close to home as to not inadvertently offend someone.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Actually you are advocating the superiority of caucasians, whether you realize it or not. By attempting to say that other races require preferential treatment in order to be treated fairly, you are de facto saying these other races are inferior and a handicap situation must exist to establish parity.
There is a difference between minority [i]protections[/i] and minority [i]preference[/i].
But you are correct that it is too common for people to conflate racism with discrimination and bigotry. You are obviously one who espouses discrimination, and I think that would be a better word than racism in this context.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
I'm more saying that whites need less preferential treatment, but sure, ok. Whatever you say.
White people in America have all the power and privilege to say that this should be reduced some isn't racist.
It is an attempt to level the playing field that is heavily stacked in favor of the white majority.
If this was a hundred meter dash white people would be starting at the 50m mark. And then complaining that any attempt to make them start at the 0m mark like everyone else is racist. And then any attempt at saying others should then maybe start at the 25m line is also racist because "Oh what, you don't think they can win without it?" And then if by some miracle, despite all these problems, a non-white won whites would claim they cheated somehow.
Nice way to have someone coming and going there, Huck. Again I say it sounds a lot like white supremacist talking points.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
how have they won when most of the SJW comics have been cancelled or their numbers have tanked so far that indie comics (which cost more many times) out sell them?
x-men before the recent SJW invasion was a super inclusive and widely popular comic.
so please, explain how a comic headed by a black woman, cripple, and manlet canadian could do so well without being pushed as a social justice equalizer?
explain why lady thor, which had a ton of promotion, even used the whole breast cancer awareness angle... did so bad
explain why DC is kicking the poop out of Marvel in the comics end despite DC Movies being mostly awful and Marvel ones being pretty awesome.
please explain how https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kwanzer/black-1 This is being outsold by a comic that uses chicken puns. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/red-rooster-golden-age#/
(Im actually glad Kwanzers project got the backing it needed, again more is better)
There is a new saying... go woke, go broke.
PH.... im pretty sure most people here are only engaging with you in part out of pity. I actually feel sad that you see comics, and equality, as a zero sum game, that you have to take from one to build another. I really think you should go out and actually make friends with some black people, it might make you come back to this tread someday and finally see what everyone is talking about.
Black people would be epically pissed if someone tried to turn Black Panther anything other than Black. Most Black people into comics don't want to see Captain America as anything other than his most iconic. They don't want him to be a secret Nazi, they don't want him to be black.
White kids loved the Static Shock tv series. He was cool, he was new, he wasn't another character turned black and given dreads. The dude rode sewer covers like a hoverboard, it was an awesome travel power.
If you don't care about sales, you don't care about the comic or character itself.
Please go into a minority neighborhood, count how many smartphones you see... then really ask yourself... can these people not afford comics?
Then look at their t-shirts. I bet you see as many superman, batman, captain america shirts as you do black panther ones.
No one wants to be told they were hired because they meet a quota. No one wants to buy a comic that was changed to meet a quota. People do want to buy comics that offer an interesting new character.
Just look at the comics that are doing well on this list for fund raising.... most dont have a social justice agenda... the ones that do have a blatant anti-sjw swing to them.
https://www.indiegogo.com/explore/comics?project_type=all&project_timing=all&sort=trending
For my last note before I leave this thread.
Don't be afraid to offend people, youve offended a bunch of us plenty. So you might as well RP a racial group you are not part of. The world would be a sadder place if writers and creative types only created things like themselves.... because then characters like Black Panther and Storm wouldn't exist... neither would Star Wars, or Star Trek, or Spawn, or the lord of the rings, or a million movies and books that all have characters unlike the writer.
Fear to offend is a death stroke to art.
Supporting how I can, Starting up a DA group for art, stories, and concepts to be collected
http://city-of-titans.deviantart.com/
Please join up if you plan to make or collect CoT related art.
All individual comic sales are down. And again as I have explained when you don't advertise outside of your white male base for a comic that isn't for your white male base is it any wonder why that comic not advertised outside of a white male base doesn't sell well to a white male base?
X-Men are and have always been literal SJWs. Most Superheroes are SJWs.
As someone who keeps a passing interest in comics and follows some comic creators on twitter I have only briefly heard anything about Lady Thor. And was not aware of the breast cancer tie in. How does someone who starts with no interest in comics supposed to know these things are even being made?
Apparently by market share DC isn't beating Marvel.
You can't give people power without relinquishing the power from somewhere else. People buy comics. People will only buy so many comics a month people need to not buy certain comics to buy other comics. Comic companies can only put out so many comics a month they can not financially just keep putting out more and more comics. Usually when a new comic comes out it is after another had been cancelled why do you think this is?
You've spoken to most black people into comics? And yes black people would be pissed if you changed black panther I to a white guy because they don't have many heroes (and less prominent heroes) to call their own.
About Static Shock what's your point? And he was pretty much a younger, hipper, Black Lightning.
They have smartphones which are likely on a plan and their paying it off as part of their bill. Along with all their other bills. I don't think they have enough expendable income to buy 15 dollars worth of comics a month. Having a phone, and more and more a smart phone, is a necessity in this day and age.
If your worried about quotas try working towards a society and systems that don't require them.
For the love of God "Trump's space force" is a comic on that list. And a bunch of idiots signed a petition to try to get The Last Jedi remade. What's the saying? Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers?
Unlike those creators I do not have a team behind me nor can I afford to hire someone to check over my work to ensure it's not inadvertently offending people. And for things like Star Wars and LOTR you're not going to offend anyone if you get aliens or elves wrong. Like what are you even on about here. And with anything live action the actors or part of the crew can usually say something if a part is offensive.
I'm not creating art. It's a choice of mine if I decide not to do something because I do not wish to inadvertently offend someone. If I was to create some form of published work you can bet I'd get people to check it over incase something I didn't think much about turns out to be offensive.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
That whole footrace example to racial inequality has been proven to be an inappropriate and illogical allegory assuming that there is only one winner in life and that every human is in a competition in a zero sum game. It is about time someone put a bullet in it and finally put it to rest because it creates a false impression and is wholly inappropriate. Sure it may appeal to the uneducated or to people incapable or too laze for critical thinking, but closer scrutiny shows it is just an emotional appeal without any substance.
People born rich are going to have an advantage over people born poor. People born into a stable family household with two parents are going to have an advantage over people born to single parents or broken households. People born to incarcerated parents are going to be at a disadvantage. People who speak one language are going to have an advantage to people who speak another language. Smarter people are going to have an advantage over less smart people. Good looking people are going to have an advantage over plain-looking people. People born in some countries are going to have an advantage to people born in other countries. To try to level the playing field by making everyone start with all the same advantages and disadvantages just because it would be nice is not only unrealistic, but absolutely counter to the primary drive of human existence; which is to make life as good as possible for your own offspring. Furthermore it is completely counter to the entire idea of promoting diversity in the first place.
If I were a white male in America, you'd better well damn believe it that I am going to want my children to have a good education and not to worry for lack of food and shelter. As should any person of any color in America. To say that because I'm a white male in America that I should somehow handicap my children so they don't have these things is absolutely preposterous. Get rid of that footrace allegory before you look more foolish.
And
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
I'd prefer to make life better for everyone as opposed to just my own.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Like Steamtank, I'm out. Here's hoping that by the time the game goes live, we can have forum moderators that can cut off racists before they spew multiple pages of hatred.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
"racial prejudice or discrimination"
None of this sounds like you're talking about fiction:
And then the cherry on top, anyone that disagrees is a white supremacist.
It's clear that there's a real hatred of white people here. And that's the very definition of racism, hating a specific race, minority or not.
Elves, probably.
[color=red]PR Team, Forum Moderator, Live Response Team[/color]
"white supremacist talking points" is pretty aggressive and inflammatory. About at bad as accusing some one of using terrorist talking points. can we attempt to keep this as a polite discussion and not accuse people of being something that they are not?
That's pretty funny considering what I've been accused of being.
And yeah, white supremacist talking points. Saying that someone using them isn't the same as someone being a white supremacist. As such talking points can be injected into various media only to have them regurgitated by others who don't know better.
Like how there's some quotes that people attribute to famous historical figures who didn't actually say them. Ignorance isn't the same as racism or bigotry, and I can easily forgive someone who was duped into accidentally helping spread a racist message.
Edit: Also some of you think I'm being racist to white people and some of you think I'm being racist to minorities. You can't have it both ways.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
the lat dozens or so MCU movies arent advertisements of the characters in them? How many billions in dollars of films arent advertisements? try another one.
I couldn't agree more.
A proper moral upbringing makes anyone's pain my pain. Compassion and respect should be in the foundation of every human interaction.
Were you trying to make a point? Or are you still of the mindset that this is some sort of zero-sum game and we can't create a win-win situation? Your use of the words "as opposed to" seems to imply that it is one or the other, and I find that to be a flawed outlook on life.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
As opposed to "which is to make life as good as possible for your own offspring."
As in, not just for any of my own hypothetical offspring but for everyone, everywhere.
There is no win win situation. For others to gain power, power must be given. You can't run something 100% then have someone else also run the same thing 100% you need to split it so that both people have an equal say.
Same as you can't eliminate poverty by just printing off more money and handing it out as that drives the value of the money down and prices up leading to no change.
Comics companies can only support a certain number of different books at a time, people are only willing to buy a certain number. Just adding to that will either make no additional sales or reduce sales of other books. Especially as the industry seems to refuse to properly advertise outside of their pre-existing fan base. And comic shops are only so big and they can only carry so many titles.
And if I could circle back to the point that started it all.
Superman has been a kid.
Superman has been Russian and a communist.
Superman has been a murderous fascist dictator.
Superman has been Zod's son.
Yet the idea of him being black is too far for some people? You can change his superficial details, you can change core elements of his character... But changing his skin color is not allowed. How can anyone view that as anything other than racist?
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
No you don't.
You said it yourself.
You stick close to home.
You also said, there's to many of them and that's offensive.
So, you prefer to offend because you just make more of them. :p
Yeah, when I make characters I try to stick close to what I am and what I know.
The statement you quoted has literally nothing to do with the kinds of characters I make.
You aren't making any sense here, at all.
I never said too many of them are offensive I have no idea where you even got that.
Like... Did you have a stroke or something? Are you ok?
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
You said there needs to be more non white characters. You're likely white and making more white characters, the exact thing you said there needs to be less of.
Maybe practice before you preach. :p
I'm not creating characters to be consumed by a mass market. If I was you bet your ass I'd have more minority characters in there.
But if I'm creating characters specifically just for me to play and have fun with creating something I'd have to do a bunch of research on just isn't up my alley.
Like, I'm pretty sure this is the dumbest argument you've made. It'd be like if I said there aren't enough minorities in fantasy fiction and then you tell me that I should make Skyrim characters that are minorities... It just doesn't do anything to the over all problem. It doesn't do anything at all.
Just like... What?
You don't think there's enough minority representation in mainstream media? Well why don't you make some minority characters on this game that isn't your product that'll help there be more minority characters in the mainstream media... Somehow... I guess..?
Like, are you trolling? Is this like, make the dumbest argument you can just to see if I'll respond? Cause you know I will.
I took me like three attempts to write a response to this as it was so nonsensical.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
In all these examples the "Superman" in question has either been an uniquely separate individual character (i.e. Superboy was not Superman himself, he was a separate spin-off character) or was set in some kind of "What-if" alternate dimension where the alternate "cloned" characters could easily be modified/altered without affecting the baseline character.
If you wanted to have a "What-if" version of Superman as a black man then more power to you. If you wanted to create a spin-off with brand new "black Kryptonians" (like the several that are [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krypton_%28TV_series%29]main characters of the new Krypton TV show[/url]) then godspeed. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that at all - does that sound like the position of a racist to you?
But for one last time when you talk about permanently changing the [b]ACTUAL CHARACTER[/b] ("The" Superman) to any other defined demographic you could think of (based on race, gender, age, disability, etc.) there are going to be repercussions for that which could only equate to the "lose-lose" scenario I've been yelling at you through this entire thread about. You make a change like that to the "real" character and all you do is A) piss off the original fanbase and B) piss off the fanbase base you're pandering to because they're smart enough to realize you're just pandering to them with a stupid gimmick. Lose-lose.
There's only two things I hate in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch. - Nigel Powers
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Guys. Getting heated, tone it back.
#1: Ironheart probably has that name because of a very short series - I can't remember if it got to issue 4, where the Avengers were all Knights of the Round Table, and Tony Stark was Ironheart.
It was pretty horrible, but it added the name to their 'things we own' list.
#2: We _have_ had an asian Superman in TV and everyone seemed to like him. His name is Dean Tanaka. His professional name is Dean Cain.
#3: In my opinion, there's only one really defining rule on these forums. "Don't be a jerk." Wil Wheaton defined it as "Don't be a dick."
Some of you are treading on that edge.
That being said, in my opinion, I feel that it's a question of if the character is good and right and well done. Representation matters, but you've got to do it justice. Two of Marvel's current stars are a joke filler comic character who happened to be created by Steve Ditko, and a devout muslim girl who took over the name of a well-loved character.
You can't catch lightning in a bottle, or Speedball would be the biggest thing ever. You just have to keep trying new things and some will work, and some won't. It's not the first time a comic company has tried to change things to be more 'woke'. That's how we got Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk and Tigra in the first place.
Just remember, sometimes, some things aren't targeted at you - but hey, maybe they'll draw people to enjoy the same things you do by overlap. Be happy about expanded audiences.
As far as the point that started it all?
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f1/8a/3b/f18a3b4a24ace04a4b138d8e51c17325.png[/img]
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
For what it's worth when I started this thread I didn't imagine it was going to be permanently stuck in the quagmire of the "diversity in comics" issue. Believe it or not I figured it'd be just another semi-harmless DC vs. Marvel type affair.
To be fair he is "appearance wise" about as close to a "generic WASPy white man" that I imagine any Asian-American man could possibly get. He's 3/4 French, Irish and Welsh according to his wiki. *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Lothic, you've been pretty groovy in this thread, really. Though I should point out that both 'The Adventures of Superman as a Boy' and 'The Adventures of Superman as a Boy - in the FUTURE' were in main continuity.
As far as Cavill, I can say that I've seen pictures of him on the set in costume, and before the desaturation FX, he really, really looks like Superman. Don't blame the actor.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
There is also Chinese Superman Kong Kenan
[img]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/china-watch/china-watch-migration/chinese-new-superman-kenan-kong.jpg?imwidth=450[/img]
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
That series had some interesting ideas, though I'm still curious about an entire Chinese Green Lantern Corps.
Lasted its run, ended. The Flash from it seems like she's sticking around, though. And I loved their Wonder Woman, as an old Feng Shui/Shadowfist player.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
Since I'm really only a novice on Superman lore the fact that I didn't know that means that roughly 98.32% of the rest of the population doesn't know that either. Besides a story about the "kid version" of a character is not quite in the same realm of "fundamental change" as say changing a character's sex or race. Kids don't usually change "fundamentally" just by being younger or older.
In other words a story about the [i]boy version[/i] of "The" Superman is still a story about "The" Superman.
I have nothing against Cavill personally. I don't think he's been the best Superman ever but I don't think he's been the worst either.
I just know that along with the crazy idea that "if Supergirl is a cast as a white girl in the upcoming movie it'll be a crime against humanity" that there are other crazy people saying "the only reason they are doing a Supergirl movie is to get rid of Cavill". I consider both of these ideas equally silly.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
As a "spin-off" and/or "What-If" version of Superman I have absolutely no problem with this. Why would I?
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Main universe, after Superman "died."
More or less the same thing as Miles Morales
Superman dies more than Optimus Prime at this point.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Again that's fine. If this Chinese Superman is a NEW CHARACTER that was created after the ORIGINAL'S (latest) death then that makes him not THE ORIGINAL SUPERMAN but a BRAND NEW SUPERMAN. I don't understand why this concept is so hard for you to understand.
Spin-offs of original characters - completely fine.
What-If versions of original characters - completely fine.
Young/old versions of original characters - completely fine.
All this is completely fine, period.
It's when you overtly CHANGE the original character (like the kind of change where the character goes to bed as a Thai man and wakes up as a Swedish woman [b]JUST[/b] to satisfy some twisted SJW agenda) is when you've fundamentally screwed up.
It's basically the "change for no explained reason" part that really annoys me about all this. At least your Chinese Superman has a "reason" for existing in his role as what I'm assuming is supposed to be as a "replacement" to the original character.
As a further related example it has never bothered me that there have been like a dozen Doctor Whos in the last 50-60 years and it doesn't even bother me that the latest one is [b][i]female[/i][/b] because at least the story/lore of that series EXPLAINS how the character dies and regenerates into a new body.
So how the hell do you "explain" that Supergirl simply "wakes up" as (for example) an African-American unless they bother to explain the reason for the change in the new movie. I'm guessing the chances they would actually script that out in the movie is about 0% which is why it SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
... was Chris Claremont the one who did that to Betsy Braddock? I think so.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
Here's the thing. The various comic book heroes are supported by a fan base. These fans fell in love with a particular character - and that character's image. To them that image is part of what defines that character. Changing that requires considerable justification to change if you want to keep your fan base.
Comic companies HAVE attempted to target broader markets - that's how businesses work - but for economic reasons they tend to focus their limited advertising funds where they have information that they will have a greater return on investment. Anyone who suggests otherwise has a very poor understanding of economics.
Businesses aren't inherently "greedy". A business has no inherent desires or motives - only the people running them do. There is actual case law since the end of the 20th century where companies tried to be more community-oriented - and then found themselves at the losing end of lawsuits. There has since been a movement to create a form of corporation that can legally do that (community service corporations - of which Missing Worlds Media, Inc. is, or is trying to become).
No group of people, or any members of that group, have any obligation to any other group or person - except where required by law (and even that is questionable). It is arrogant and morally objectionable by anyone to demand that. It IS morally sound to [i]encourage[/i] people to treat each other with respect but demanding such is absolutely not. If you think a person or group should act a certain way or feel/believe a certain way about it then you need to come up with an objective argument in support of your position. Certain people (you know who you are) have attempted to argue points on emotional ground and have tried to manipulate others through guilt - which is abusive. The defensive and angry responses to such conduct is rational and expected.
It is an overdrawn conclusion to argue that things are, in the majority, the result of racism, of a "patriarchy", or of any other abusive actions by a given majority. That such things occur in a society is a given but the existence of such does not make for a general rule for the whole. Consider Hanlon's Razor ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor ) if you will. There is also the patterns of tradition that may have originated in times where beliefs about race, gender, etc. were the result of ignorance or the propaganda of a manipulative few. In modern times those traditions may persist without the original driving intent, beliefs, or desires behind them and persist as a matter of the inertia that is all-to-common in human conduct.
-----------
[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
While your words here summarize the issue quite well I still prefer a more directly blunt wording of the point:
Changing the race, sex, orientation, etc. of long established characters in the service of "social justice" can only result in as much discrimination and anti-diversity as not allowing for the diverse/minority characters in the first place.
You don't solve the "problem" of there not being a "black Supergirl" by expunging the existence of the current version of Supergirl like some kind of Orwellian nightmare. You solve the problem of there not being a "black Supergirl" by embracing the just right for BOTH characters to exist and letting the fans decide if both, one or neither should continue into the future. This is NOT A ZERO SUM GAME, period.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Well, the problem with Bonetti’s Defense here is that Sturgeon's Law cancels it out, neatly. We're living too tightly in the present - as I mentioned by the invocation of she who has the powers of both Squirrel and Girl. Over time, what is good will be remembered, what is bad may be redeemed.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
I'll let the future sort itself out. If someone today managed to create a brand new "African American version of Supergirl" that becomes so loved and accepted that she eclipses the popularity of the original character to the point that say 50 years from now no one hardly remembers the "white girl" version of the Supergirl then so be it.
But that will only happen if the new character gains genuine respect and popularity on its own terms - it will NOT be accepted if it's clearly just a Frankenstein'd construct that was concocted or co-opted for the sole purposes of checking off a box on a SJW's checklist. Sincere characters (regardless of ethnicity, sex, etc.) are the ones that stand the test of time - social experiments created to satisfy some crackpot's myopically one-sided notions of justice are consigned to the ash heaps of history.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Lothic, you make me want to say 'But I LIKE Mr. A.'
(I'm a huge Ditko fan.)
And his later use in Books of Magic was genius.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
Because if the movie is it's own continuity then Supergirl hasn't appeared before and as such she can look African American and hasn't changed from being white because in that specific continuity she was never white to begin with.
It's the same as any time they reboot the universe or property these characters aren't suddenly changing from one to the next just in this entirely new version of the universe they just are and have always been what they are now.
Like new 52 Superman isn't the same Superman as the original one. Who is also not the same as the Man of Steel Superman. Each and every one of them are their own seperate Superman.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
So in your world 60 years of comic book canon, a previous feature-length movie and appearances in several both previous and current TV shows amounts to a character that "hasn't appeared before"? *sigh*
I don't like to use the term lightly but along with several others here I have to conclude you're simply trolling this thread. I honestly don't actually want to believe you are this asinine IRL but you've left us little choice in the matter.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
TAS Supergirl was from the planet Argo. Kryptonite didn't work on her.
Post-Crisis Supergirl was a protomatter copy of Lana Lang from an alternate universe.
1990s retconned THAT Supergirl into a half-protomatter half-angel half-human who was dating a half-horse half-human half-angel.
The 1990s were weird.
Heck, her second appearance was a retcon - her first appearance was a magic creation wished into being by Jimmy Olsen.
And this says NOTHING bout Kara Zor-L's origins.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
And everything you just said dealt with MULTIPLE SPIN-OFF VERSIONS of the character. Let's not muddy the waters shall we?
In how many of the versions you listed was she not essentially a "white girl" at least in basic appearance?
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I don't really think that was the core point of her character, though. I mean it was probably less important to the character than 'dating a horse'.
And parts of the 90s version - she spent a few years as a 'goopy thing' after dating Lex but before becoming a half-angel.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
She hasn't appeared before in the new -CONTINUITY-
If they had a Supergirl movie they'd likely do her origin story, correct? Likely to show her FIRST APPEARANCE in this new continuity. So it doesn't matter who she was or what she did 60 years ago because this NEW Supergirl isn't the same one. She isn't Kara Zor-El who landed on earth in 1959. Hell the current comic and TV versions aren't even that character. They can be very similar characters but they aren't her, they haven't done all the things she's done, they aren't in the same continuity, they're essentially a version of her from another universe.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
The point is that in all those different versions of this character she didn't -NEED- to be a white girl.
Every new version of the character is essentially a spin off of the original.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Guys. Time to stop teasing. We've got to agree on one thing. What matters.
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c6/f4/28/c6f42814da6eaf00cba738ebf972122b.gif[/img]
Lothic's right. It's about sincerity. And if you can make a character sincere, it'll carry on, it'll work, people will connect. And it doesn't matter about the origin of the character, either.
Much as I hate to say it, I'll point to the current My Little Ponies. Lauren Faust managed to make the characters come from a very real and sincere place in her heart, and it shows.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
Is supergirl portrayed as something other than a "white girl" in the latest stories? That's the version of her they'd use in an upcoming movie to coincide with her current incarnations in the latest comic books.
The more things change the more they stay the same...
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Why are we talking about this?
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
And for about the 27th time if she doesn't need to be any specific race or gender then she could easily REMAIN a white girl forever... no harm, no foul.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
So. Again.
They can change her origin story... But can't change her skin color?
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Not without a GOOD reason. Bowing over to the pressures of SJW agendas is NOT a GOOD reason.
[size=30]THIS IS NOT A ZERO SUM GAME!!!![/size]
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I think the editors would call it 'reflecting their current audience', and that's more accurate.
[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/d/d6/Supergirl_-_Cosmic_Adventures_in_the_8th_Grade_Vol_1_1.jpg[/img]
Of course it's not a zero sum game. More people reading comics is good!
Lothic, I get your point. I didn't like it when they wrote Power Girl out of DC Comics, either. (Luckily, the 'real' one stayed with us thanks to Harley Quinn.)
(New52 Earth-2 Supergirl/Power Girl just isn't the same character.)
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
So they need a reason better than giving more representation in media and specifically Superhero media to change her skin color...
But they can freely change everything else about her for no real reason.
Ok then.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
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