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TheInternetJanitor
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I would love to see CoT

I would love to see CoT flourish and I dearly hope MWM can show enough off to enable that to happen. I understand people not wanting to put money down unless they are sure they are going to get what they paid for though. There have been plenty of dev teams using kickstarter and early access that mismanaged their projects, cut and run, or lost momentum once they got a taste of success. MWM has to make a strong showing to overcome that fear.

Lothic
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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

I would love to see CoT flourish and I dearly hope MWM can show enough off to enable that to happen. I understand people not wanting to put money down unless they are sure they are going to get what they paid for though. There have been plenty of dev teams using kickstarter and early access that mismanaged their projects, cut and run, or lost momentum once they got a taste of success. MWM has to make a strong showing to overcome that fear.

Frankly I believe they've already achieved a "strong showing" to overcome that typical fear for me. Everything the folks at MWM have said for years now have led me to believe that I should at least still give them the benefit of the doubt on that.

But I accept that I likely have that degree of faith in MWM because I've been lurking around this forum for years now. The hypothetical random person who just learns about this game today is going to be starting from square one. I sometimes wonder what's here to hook a new potential player as strongly as I've been "pre-hooked" on the matter.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Ravrohan
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Well, I really like this

Well, I really like this forum, and I'm excited about the game. I think I've said a few times in places I'm looking forward to the 2nd kickstarter and would be happy with the char creator alone for sometime. But I can tell you one thing that DID put me off and kept me in lurker mode for months was just how many threads dated back to 2013 or so on the first page of a subform. It made the forum as a whole looked half deserted at first. Some of those threads were still active or semi active, but many aren't and it's less than impressive if you're new.

ivanhedgehog
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Glitch404 wrote:
Glitch404 wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Glitch404 wrote:

To be fair, who's to say the footage that was shown in that interview with GameSpace was actually recent? Especially at the time of when that interview took place. Chances are it was probably from months ago and saw a massive revision or final incorporation to the bigger project that is CoT (bare in mind that the game is being made in modules/individual pieces). Also as far as 'big 2018 release' goes, the only thing thats been slated for such a thing was the Avatar Builder, which would be an achievement by itself. Beta likely will commence and run for most of 2019 if we're lucky.

Why would they not show the most recent footage if they were able? And that was in, what, April 2018? Not that long ago.

Also, what have you seen that I've missed to confidently say beta will run in 2019? We've been given no indication that that is happening.

They probably didn't have any recent footage recorded and able to present by the time of the interview? Maybe they're bound by a contract of some description? I don't know. It's not uncommon for the Devs to not have certain things ready for public display because of their dedication to making things look all shiny and polished. As well as be confident that something is ready to show-off if it mostly bug-free and so on.

Lastly, I have not seen anything that makes me "confidently" say beta would run in 2019. Hence why I said "likely" - thus emphasizing that it could or could not happen. This is a guesstimation at best and shouldn't be taken literally. I say this because I doubt (but am aware that there likely have been games in the past) that CoT would release after spending about a decade in development. The project started in 2013 and its 2018 now. Any longer, then I'm pretty sure most of us here would begin to start getting worried about the state of the game and what could happen in the long run.

I figure that the module approach will have the advantage of coming together fairly quickly. That being said, if they havent started fitting the modules together now, they wont possibly make an October char gen release. Hopefully the release this week will have something more than lore. Lore was fine 3 years ago but with the other studios faltering, now would be a good time to step up their game.

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The relevant movie quote that

The relevant movie quote that comes to mind is, "Which, it will be ready when it's ready."

Sometimes even the people doing the work can't say for sure when a task will be complete. Building an MMO in one's spare time is a bit more complex than installing carpet. Not knowing is better than being promised something that can't be delivered.

That said, yes, we've all waited with bated breath for a *long* time, and some good news would be much appreciated.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

Lothic
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CallmeBlue wrote:
CallmeBlue wrote:

The relevant movie quote that comes to mind is, "Which, it will be ready when it's ready."

Sometimes even the people doing the work can't say for sure when a task will be complete. Building an MMO in one's spare time is a bit more complex than installing carpet. Not knowing is better than being promised something that can't be delivered.

That said, yes, we've all waited with baited breath for a *long* time, and some good news would be much appreciated.

Sure there's nothing wrong with not releasing a game until it's "ready" to be released.

But there has to be a point when you can reasonably assume a game might be 50%, 75% and/or 90% ready to go and at those points it's not unreasonable to expect a few trivial things like in-game screenshots and such. I'm just speculating that we should have long been past one of those "interim" milestones by now.

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ivanhedgehog
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CallmeBlue wrote:
CallmeBlue wrote:

The relevant movie quote that comes to mind is, "Which, it will be ready when it's ready."

Sometimes even the people doing the work can't say for sure when a task will be complete. Building an MMO in one's spare time is a bit more complex than installing carpet. Not knowing is better than being promised something that can't be delivered.

That said, yes, we've all waited with baited breath for a *long* time, and some good news would be much appreciated.

Thats a fine thing to say, but game development doesnt occur in a vacuum. star citizen has been in development for many years, eventually they will have to release it or crash and burn. People get burned out and stop following projects eventually. Right now a lot of people are unhappy with games like WOW and SWTOR and are looking for someplace to come to roost. Managment has decided they want esport games, rather than games that are fun. COT has an opportunity to grab some of these players, but that will depend if they can produce anything this fall. We will get there when we get there sounds nice but doesnt help the kid in the backseat that has to pee.

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I hope they do a second

I hope they do a second Kickstarter soon, but only if they have enough to show the public that can get them hyped. What that would be for me is a full video displaying a functional character creator, and the option to access the creator with a certain level of donation. However, that would not be enough for me. I still have lingering questions about what exactly is done, outside the character creator. We've seen some bits and bobs of this and that, but we've yet to see a real extensive overview of Titan city. I'd like to know where that is in development, besides just concept art for some buildings and some highly coreographed photos on some distant cliff area. A list of what is completed thus far, and what is not, plus the implementation of a regularly updated timeline, would be a secondary requirement for me to consider donating. It may sound a bit excessive, but I don't want to find myself 5 years from now saying "boy, I hope they do a third kickstarter so they can finally finish this thing", with still no real playable game available. A timeline and listing of what is done would do a lot to give us an idea of where we are at the current stage of development, and how much more we have left to go.

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Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

I hope they do a second Kickstarter soon, but only if they have enough to show the public that can get them hyped. What that would be for me is a full video displaying a functional character creator, and the option to access the creator with a certain level of donation. However, that would not be enough for me. I still have lingering questions about what exactly is done, outside the character creator. We've seen some bits and bobs of this and that, but we've yet to see a real extensive overview of Titan city. I'd like to know where that is in development, besides just concept art for some buildings and some highly coreographed photos on some distant cliff area. A list of what is completed thus far, and what is not, plus the implementation of a regularly updated timeline, would be a secondary requirement for me to consider donating. It may sound a bit excessive, but I don't want to find myself 5 years from now saying "boy, I hope they do a third kickstarter so they can finally finish this thing", with still no real playable game available. A timeline and listing of what is done would do a lot to give us an idea of where we are at the current stage of development, and how much more we have left to go.

While I agree and have the same basic requirements to donate in the 2nd Chance, we are not going to get a timeline..at least not an official one. This has been asked for and brought up so many times that the fact that there isn't one is basically proof enough that there won't be one. I've accepted that but the downside for MWM is, because of no timeline, I'm going to have to be blown away by whatever they choose to display as evidence of their progress to get us to donate during the 2nd Chance. They're still saying a Fall 2018 chargen release but we don't have any details on that, on how robust it will be, or how much of the chargen will be unlocked. Basically, in lieu of a timeline that I know they aren't going to publish, we have to try and guess at how far along they are by what they show us. So if all we get is another July 4th video I won't be donating. If there's no proof of an actual game world, or if there is no 'showing-off' of different powers, combat and travel, and maybe a mission or two...it's going to be a no-go for a lot of people.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Kiyori Anoyui
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I agree Dark Cleric, I think

I agree Dark Cleric, I think anything short of what you say will not draw in a crowd to throw cash at the project. If it is just a video of a few outfits and sliders, then it will most likely just get the current hard core stalkers(us) to throw in a few more bits than we already have, which will not generate the profit they are hoping for. I pray that they have something spectacular to show off before they do decide to move forward with the 2nd Chance.

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I hope I speak for some out

I hope I speak for some out here who have followed the development of this game since the beginning, but were not able to donate to the original kickstarter. I was financially unable to donate originally. It would be fantastic to me to get the chance to pick up the rewards that I missed back then. I have the ability to donate now, and would do so gladly for those rewards. I am mostly excited about the possibility of getting the in-game rewards.

City of Heroes / City of Villains player until the end.

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Drone Keeper wrote:
Drone Keeper wrote:

I hope I speak for some out here who have followed the development of this game since the beginning, but were not able to donate to the original kickstarter. I was financially unable to donate originally. It would be fantastic to me to get the chance to pick up the rewards that I missed back then. I have the ability to donate now, and would do so gladly for those rewards. I am mostly excited about the possibility of getting the in-game rewards.

I'm of the same mind.

I am especially interested in getting a name on the memorial wall.

Hi. I'm Hope.

Per Ignim
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I'm even up for donating more

I'm even up for donating more :)

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This brings up an interesting

This brings up an interesting question - will the 2nd chance kickstarter copy the same perks and add-ons? I ask because if I recall correctly, the custom player-designed stuff from the first one kind of bit the devs in the butt?

In any case, IF the perks were the same, then the Home Sweet Home ($50) or Fly Free ($75) look pretty appealing to me - though I have a question about the additional VIP access. If say I were to get the "Fly Free" perk - exactly how many months of VIP access would I get upon release? Would it be just 3 months, or would it include the 3 months from "buying the box"/digital download, thus equalling 6 total VIP months?

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Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:

This brings up an interesting question - will the 2nd chance kickstarter copy the same perks and add-ons? I ask because if I recall correctly, the custom player-designed stuff from the first one kind of bit the devs in the butt?

In any case, IF the perks were the same, then the Home Sweet Home ($50) or Fly Free ($75) look pretty appealing to me - though I have a question about the additional VIP access. If say I were to get the "Fly Free" perk - exactly how many months of VIP access would I get upon release? Would it be just 3 months, or would it include the 3 months from "buying the box"/digital download, thus equalling 6 total VIP months?

They've stated it will be almost exactly same, only thing different will be no more player designed stuff.

As for the VIP time I'm sure they will add to each other and run one after the other, not run concurrently.

Lothic
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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:
Interdictor wrote:

This brings up an interesting question - will the 2nd chance kickstarter copy the same perks and add-ons? I ask because if I recall correctly, the custom player-designed stuff from the first one kind of bit the devs in the butt?

In any case, IF the perks were the same, then the Home Sweet Home ($50) or Fly Free ($75) look pretty appealing to me - though I have a question about the additional VIP access. If say I were to get the "Fly Free" perk - exactly how many months of VIP access would I get upon release? Would it be just 3 months, or would it include the 3 months from "buying the box"/digital download, thus equalling 6 total VIP months?

They've stated it will be almost exactly same, only thing different will be no more player designed stuff.

Yeah they have definitely stated there will be no "customized building" Moguls offered in the Second Chance. I'm not entirely sure if they've said there will be no more Fashionista (custom costume) or Registered Lethal Weapon (custom weapon/prop) type pledges but it's likely they will NOT offer those either based on how much time they might take to make before launch.

I still think they can (and should) organize things like that into services that could bought by players -after- launch. After launch they could easily regulate how many of those things they would decide to make per month to control how much time/effort they spend on these things. It's up to MWM if they want to make thousands of extra dollars per month or not. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Reality Bytes
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I can certainly see them not

I can certainly see them not wanting to do more Moguls. The custom costume and weapons are, I assume, a smaller lift and maybe they could do more for such a second chance KS. Doing that as a service after launch though I question the cost/benefit of. Probably easier and more profitable to just do costume part packs for general sale like other MMOs do. Balancing the cost/effort/maintenance of a stream of custom unique costumes/weapons would be tricky. A costume pack can be sold indefinitely, a custom item is a one-off. Too expensive and they sell few or none, too cheap and they can't keep up with demand and threaten regular ongoing game dev work. And if you and I have the same idea for a custom, one of us is going to be happy, the other is going to be left out or forced to not get quite what we had in mind.

Reality is what I make it

Lothic
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Reality Bytes wrote:
Reality Bytes wrote:

The custom costume and weapons are, I assume, a smaller lift and maybe they could do more for such a second chance KS. Doing that as a service after launch though I question the cost/benefit of. Probably easier and more profitable to just do costume part packs for general sale like other MMOs do. Balancing the cost/effort/maintenance of a stream of custom unique costumes/weapons would be tricky. A costume pack can be sold indefinitely, a custom item is a one-off.

They've already mentioned that the "one-off" things they created for the KS perks and add-ons will be open to sell to the entire game after one year of "temporary exclusivity". Basically any custom item made for the game (whether for the KS or possibly after launch) would eventually be sold in the in-game store to everyone like everything else.

Reality Bytes wrote:

Too expensive and they sell few or none, too cheap and they can't keep up with demand and threaten regular ongoing game dev work.

The goal of custom made items like this wouldn't be to sell a huge number per month on an assembly-line basis. Ideally the goal (from the Devs' point of view) would be to keep these things fairly expensive so they the Devs would only have to do a few per month. If the Devs could make several thousand dollars by just spending a few hours a month on a handful of customized items that would be a huge "dollars earned vs. effort spent" profit margin. And trust me there are people out there who'd be willing to spend a thousand or more on a single unique item or costume part.

No one said the Devs would have to stop putting out "costume part packs for general sale like other MMOs do". The little bit of extra customization work the Devs opt to do could be done at -any- pace they wanted on a "time available" basis.

Reality Bytes wrote:

And if you and I have the same idea for a custom, one of us is going to be happy, the other is going to be left out or forced to not get quite what we had in mind.

Again if you have the money you could get your custom-made items. But if you couldn't afford it you could settle for buying other people's customized items after their year of exclusivity is over.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Reality Bytes wrote:
Reality Bytes wrote:

I can certainly see them not wanting to do more Moguls. The custom costume and weapons are, I assume, a smaller lift and maybe they could do more for such a second chance KS. Doing that as a service after launch though I question the cost/benefit of. Probably easier and more profitable to just do costume part packs for general sale like other MMOs do. Balancing the cost/effort/maintenance of a stream of custom unique costumes/weapons would be tricky. A costume pack can be sold indefinitely, a custom item is a one-off. Too expensive and they sell few or none, too cheap and they can't keep up with demand and threaten regular ongoing game dev work. And if you and I have the same idea for a custom, one of us is going to be happy, the other is going to be left out or forced to not get quite what we had in mind.

What says that custom items needs to be only available to the one who ordered it?

I take it that custom items (like I've heard with mogul buildings) is that the one who initially ordered it will have a timed exclusivity but after that it will fall under "general availability", so I guess it's not really a "one time deal".

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There are games that have

There are games that have done well with this kind of funding model. Allow players to fund the addition of specific content which is then added to the general game. Path of Exile is probably one of the best examples.

This basically front loads the cost to a few people, with little to no cost to most players.

The TF2 model is basically the reverse of this, having content crowd sourced (relatively little dev spent on it) and splitting profits between the game and the content creators to encourage production.

Both of these have been shown to work well, and both in those specific examples work alongside the more traditional model of developed content that is created by devs and sold to everyone.

All of these models can work together. You just need a game that is fun and popular first. Worrying about selling fancy hats comes after you actually have a playerbase that would want said hats.

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Janitor's right. The only

Janitor's right. The only issue with the crowd sourced hats, btw, assuming they match the proper specs, is tax issues - that can get messy.

Project Lead

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I'm a buf FAN of superhero

I'm a big FAN of superhero games (mmo only) , waiting for second kickstarter (miss first) but i still here since 2013 , still waiting for release ..hope it's not a scam project (do not take it like aggressive act) Gonna be your crowdfunder

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ivanhedgehog
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Its not a scam, these people

Its not a scam, these people have done some amazing things. I am anxious as all get out to see it release. I am hoping for some info soon, cant wait to see it.

for the devs: some of us may be a pain in the patoot about announcements, its because we are like kids waiting for christmas. not be cause we just like to be a pain. well most of us....maybe a little...

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No god , i'm not saying what

No god , i'm not saying what it's scam project i mean - hope it's not xD . And yeah exactly i waitng it like a kid b/c other superheroes mmo is dead or dying like CO and DCUO

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Remember that City of Tabbies

Remember that City of Tabbies (CoT) is the *ONLY* game on the interwebz which features ""The World's Mightiest Moggie" … ME!

If you are not going to play City of Tabbies, then you are probably a dog lover!

*sage nod*

*snoozes*

*dreams about Mr. Boots … and his long and impressive vibrissae!*

*purrs rhythmically*

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Remember that City of Tabbies (CoT) is the *ONLY* game on the interwebz which features ""The World's Mightiest Moggie" … ME!

If you are not going to play City of Tabbies, then you are probably a dog lover!

*sage nod*

*snoozes*

*dreams about Mr. Boots … and his long and impressive vibrissae!*

*purrs rhythmically*

Welcome back, Amerikatt. I've missed your fuzzy persona and positive presence on these forums.

Amerikatt
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Geveo wrote:
Geveo wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Remember that City of Tabbies (CoT) is the *ONLY* game on the interwebz which features ""The World's Mightiest Moggie" … ME!

If you are not going to play City of Tabbies, then you are probably a dog lover!

*sage nod*

*snoozes*

*dreams about Mr. Boots … and his long and impressive vibrissae!*

*purrs rhythmically*

Welcome back, Amerikatt. I've missed your fuzzy persona and positive presence on these forums.

Thanks very much for your kind words! Sorry I have not posted anything for quite awhile. Otherwordly concerns ("RL") sometimes interfere with my public appearances and crime-crushing crusading capers!

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"RL" must be 'Rotten

"RL" must be 'Rotten Labradors'! Very demanding, yes.

'Cat from another star'? You can't mean Sirius?

Always pleased to see you around, Amerikatt!

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

*dreams about Mr. Boots … and his long and impressive vibrissae!*

OK now you made me look it up...
vi·bris·sa
/vīˈbrisə/
nounZoology
plural noun: vibrissae

any of the long stiff hairs growing around the mouth or elsewhere on the face of many mammals, used as organs of touch; whiskers.

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Hey all, I am new here, but I

Hey all, I am new here, but I played CoH for years. I'd love to contribute to pre-game member stuff. Just heard about this today. (have not been playing any MMO's for about 5 years now).

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the 2nd chance Kiskstarter

the 2nd chance Kiskstarter will happen AFTER the release of Issue 0, the chargen and a small zone (chat zone). The Devs want to have something to show before they open the bank. But this will enable them to hire full time animators. At the moment things are looking very good.

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lolligagger wrote:
lolligagger wrote:

Hey all, I am new here, but I played CoH for years. I'd love to contribute to pre-game member stuff. Just heard about this today. (have not been playing any MMO's for about 5 years now).

How'd you come to hear about City of Titans? And, of course, welcome!

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Remember that City of Tabbies (CoT) is the *ONLY* game on the interwebz which features ""The World's Mightiest Moggie" … ME!

If you are not going to play City of Tabbies, then you are probably a dog lover!

*sage nod*

*snoozes*

*dreams about Mr. Boots … and his long and impressive vibrissae!*

*purrs rhythmically*

Perhaps we need a mez power based on catnip.

Composition Team

Amerikatt
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Beamrider wrote:
Beamrider wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Remember that City of Tabbies (CoT) is the *ONLY* game on the interwebz which features ""The World's Mightiest Moggie" … ME!

If you are not going to play City of Tabbies, then you are probably a dog lover!

*sage nod*

*snoozes*

*dreams about Mr. Boots … and his long and impressive vibrissae!*

*purrs rhythmically*

Perhaps we need a mez power based on catnip.

Kitty crack is wack. Just say NO! to catnip.

*chug-a-lugs a gallon of milk. Chocolate. Cold*

*licks away her milk moustache with her pink sandpapery tongue*

*flops to the floor and snoozes*

*dreams about Mr. Boots*

*dreams of replacing Kitty Softpaws as Mr. Boots' partner*

*lets out a light sigh*

*purrs soothingly*

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I just need to know. Are you

I just need to know. Are you that rare breed of cat that is not Lactose intolerant? 'cause you sure do drink your fair share.

And I think Beamrider was suggesting a catnip substitute, not the actual drug itself.

Atama
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StellarAgent wrote:
StellarAgent wrote:

I just need to know. Are you that rare breed of cat that is not Lactose intolerant? 'cause you sure do drink your fair share.

AMERIKATT WILL TELL YOU WHEN AMERIKATT HAS HAD ENOUGH!!!

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My Cat loved ice cream! We

My Cat loved ice cream! We would always let lick the bowls clean when we were done.

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StellarAgent wrote:
StellarAgent wrote:

I just need to know. Are you that rare breed of cat that is not Lactose intolerant? 'cause you sure do drink your fair share.

And I think Beamrider was suggesting a catnip substitute, not the actual drug itself.

AK converts all of her food into energy. This is how she can eat an industrial vat's-worth of Catsi's 10-Alarm Nuclear Waste Chili. Chug-a-lugging a simple gallon of milk (especially chocolate milk) is kit's play!

Although many real-world cats are lactose intolerant, AK *IS* "The World's Mightiest Moggie"!

AK makes *NO* distinction between real- and synthetic catnip. She figures that synthetic catnip is a gateway to real catnip use and abuse. She is, after all, a Golden/Silver Age character who tends to have a black and white outlook on things. Either you are a Good Citizen or a Naughty Spawn!

*sage nod*

[Sorry if my mere presence has derailed this thread. I have a pile of shiny Nemmie buttons waiting to be donated for Kickstarter 2]

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Hope wrote:
Hope wrote:
Drone Keeper wrote:

I hope I speak for some out here who have followed the development of this game since the beginning, but were not able to donate to the original kickstarter. I was financially unable to donate originally. It would be fantastic to me to get the chance to pick up the rewards that I missed back then. I have the ability to donate now, and would do so gladly for those rewards. I am mostly excited about the possibility of getting the in-game rewards.

I'm of the same mind.

I am especially interested in getting a name on the memorial wall.

I want to get all the way to the level where you get two accounts set up. One for me and one for my wife. She played CoH/V with me and will be playing this game with me too.

City of Heroes / City of Villains player until the end.

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Drone Keeper wrote:
Drone Keeper wrote:
Hope wrote:
Drone Keeper wrote:

I hope I speak for some out here who have followed the development of this game since the beginning, but were not able to donate to the original kickstarter. I was financially unable to donate originally. It would be fantastic to me to get the chance to pick up the rewards that I missed back then. I have the ability to donate now, and would do so gladly for those rewards. I am mostly excited about the possibility of getting the in-game rewards.

I'm of the same mind.

I am especially interested in getting a name on the memorial wall.

I want to get all the way to the level where you get two accounts set up. One for me and one for my wife. She played CoH/V with me and will be playing this game with me too.

Same. The wife and I loved CoH/V and have been eager to get in on the ground floor for CoT.

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I keep hoping to come here

I keep hoping to come here and find new information. I'm guessing that won' t come until I'm out of town or something. Lol.

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Is there a place to subscribe

Is there a place to subscribe for a reminder email when the 2nd KS is around? Will there be optional PayPal backer options? Am I too late and it already happened? O.O

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ThatWeirdo wrote:
ThatWeirdo wrote:

Is there a place to subscribe for a reminder email when the 2nd KS is around? Will there be optional PayPal backer options? Am I too late and it already happened? O.O

Definitely didn't already happen. An email list might not be a bad idea though, to reach those who don't check the forums super often.


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ThatWeirdo wrote:
ThatWeirdo wrote:

Is there a place to subscribe for a reminder email when the 2nd KS is around? Will there be optional PayPal backer options? Am I too late and it already happened? O.O

The good news is that nothing has happened yet with the Second Chance effort so you haven't missed anything. The bad news is that nothing has happened yet with the Second Chance effort so nothing has, well, actually "happened" yet.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Thx you two :)

Thx you two :)

*sigh* Wait and see and hope to not miss it then.

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Mr. Weirdo: Thanks for being

Mr. Weirdo: Thanks for being so fervently awaiting the 2nd Kickstarter. Remember that, when you support City of Tabbies, a kitten gets her wings!

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Oh hey, ever heard of HiJinx,

Oh hey, ever heard of HiJinx, if you wanna throw money at MWM here you go https://www.patreon.com/HiJinx :)


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the Patreon and KoFi links

the Patreon and KoFi links are at the bottom of the page...no all the way down. coffee cup and stick with circle icons.

(at)Roxanna - Little Sister - Plutonium Bloom - MilkShakes
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Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Mr. Weirdo: Thanks for being so fervently awaiting the 2nd Kickstarter. Remember that, when you support City of Tabbies, a kitten gets her wings!

Disclaimer: this assumes that said kitten needs wings to fly,or just likes the way wings look as she stretches them out, soaring through the sky before pouncing on the Naughty Spawn. Some Kittens fly through force of will, some use superscience or magical assistance, and some are simply above being affected by gravity. In City of Tabbies, you get to decide how (or if, there will be many modes of super movement) your superkitten will fly. ^_^

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Don't forget if you scroll

Don't forget if you scroll all the way up there is the "Merchandise" link. That helps too.
But here's the direct link just in case:
http://missingworldsmedia.storenvy.com/

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Don't forget if you scroll all the way up there is the "Merchandise" link. That helps too.
But here's the direct link just in case:
http://missingworldsmedia.storenvy.com/

Please note that if you are viewing this on a smaller than desktop screen, that Merchandise link may be hiding behind the Navigation button. ^_^

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Mr. Weirdo: Thanks for being so fervently awaiting the 2nd Kickstarter. Remember that, when you support City of Tabbies, a kitten gets her wings!

Disclaimer: this assumes that said kitten needs wings to fly,or just likes the way wings look as she stretches them out, soaring through the sky before pouncing on the Naughty Spawn. Some Kittens fly through force of will, some use superscience or magical assistance, and some are simply above being affected by gravity. In City of Tabbies, you get to decide how (or if, there will be many modes of super movement) your superkitten will fly. ^_^

+10 Intertoobz!

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Don't forget if you scroll all the way up there is the "Merchandise" link. That helps too.
But here's the direct link just in case:
http://missingworldsmedia.storenvy.com/

Lowkey, any other designs coming up? :p

Or accessories? Graphic tees don't fit my new aestetic


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I have no idea. I'll look

I have no idea. I'll look into it. I think we might have product limit with this store site. It's been a while since I first learned of it and its details.

Edit: Seems we have room to grow
https://support.storenvy.com/customer/portal/articles/1090693-how-many-products-can-i-sell-in-my-store-

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Damn, 1000 is a generous

Damn, 1000 is a generous start. Good store pick!

I'd love some like minimalist/modern design. Like a phoenix out of geometric shapes


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Lowkey, any other designs coming up? :p

Or accessories? Graphic tees don't fit my new aestetic

What aesthetic? Ninja? Butler? Ninja butler?

“This tea just arrived out of thin air!!!”

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
desviper wrote:

Lowkey, any other designs coming up? :p

Or accessories? Graphic tees don't fit my new aestetic

What aesthetic? Ninja? Butler? Ninja butler?

“This tea just arrived out of thin air!!!”

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
desviper wrote:

Lowkey, any other designs coming up? :p

Or accessories? Graphic tees don't fit my new aestetic

What aesthetic? Ninja? Butler? Ninja butler?

Sleek Androgyny? Idk titles aren't my strong suit :p


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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Atama wrote:
desviper wrote:

Lowkey, any other designs coming up? :p

Or accessories? Graphic tees don't fit my new aestetic

What aesthetic? Ninja? Butler? Ninja butler?

“This tea just arrived out of thin air!!!”

Haha, I wasn’t even thinking of that but yes, that is a ninja butler. :D

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I hope that cucumbers are

I hope that cucumbers are *not* going to be incentive prizes for the new Kickstarter.

I was nomming away happily on Feline Supplement #25. When I turned around there was a big green thing behind me. I thought it was my arch-nemesis, Mr. Annelid (you know, the fellow with specs and a mini cathedral radio hanging from a chain around his neck), but then I realized it was too big. NOT funny!

*looks warily at YOU!*

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Your worst nightmare...

Your worst nightmare... Cucumber Ella, who fires tactical cukes at her enemies.

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An umbrella that fires

An umbrella that fires cucumbers.... ^_^

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

An umbrella that fires cucumbers.... ^_^

Exactly! A green one.

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You know, this wild tangent

You know, this wild tangent discussion is entertaining. But I'd still like to get more information that is current about when we may actually hope to get some details about what the Second Chance will have available for us. (and maybe when we can get in on it, please, please, please :D )

City of Heroes / City of Villains player until the end.

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Drone Keeper wrote:
Drone Keeper wrote:

You know, this wild tangent discussion is entertaining. But I'd still like to get more information that is current about when we may actually hope to get some details about what the Second Chance will have available for us. (and maybe when we can get in on it, please, please, please :D )

They've been clear that's not going to happen. No dates, no guesses, and no timeframes from the devs.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Drone Keeper wrote:
Drone Keeper wrote:

You know, this wild tangent discussion is entertaining. But I'd still like to get more information that is current about when we may actually hope to get some details about what the Second Chance will have available for us. (and maybe when we can get in on it, please, please, please :D )

Because MWM has linked the Second Chance (a thing that is not technically a "software product") directly to the release of "Issue 0" (a thing that definitely is a "software product") the two things are now at the mercy of whenever Issue 0 is set to go.

Theoretically MWM could have started the Second Chance six months (or even years) ago but they've repeatedly told us that they "want to have a product to show as the basis for the Second Chance" so until Issue 0 is ready nothing's likely going to happen. This explains why they can't even give us a reasonable "public estimate" for the Second Chance because again it all now hinges on when the software is ready AND on what features the software will be able to provide.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Drone Keeper wrote:

You know, this wild tangent discussion is entertaining. But I'd still like to get more information that is current about when we may actually hope to get some details about what the Second Chance will have available for us. (and maybe when we can get in on it, please, please, please :D )

They've been clear that's not going to happen. No dates, no guesses, and no timeframes from the devs.

Uhm...they've been very clear that is IS GOING TO HAPPEN. When? "This year". What can we get? I think the only confirmation is "no Moguls" which is disappointing.


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Drone Keeper wrote:

You know, this wild tangent discussion is entertaining. But I'd still like to get more information that is current about when we may actually hope to get some details about what the Second Chance will have available for us. (and maybe when we can get in on it, please, please, please :D )

They've been clear that's not going to happen. No dates, no guesses, and no timeframes from the devs.

Uhm...they've been very clear that is IS GOING TO HAPPEN. When? "This year". What can we get? I think the only confirmation is "no Moguls" which is disappointing.

The recent hardware expansion is an indication to me that they are preparing to bring up an additional server, most likely the "alpha" server. when this would be visible to us is unknown, but I see it as a step forwards.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Uhm...they've been very clear that is IS GOING TO HAPPEN. When? "This year".

I'm not going to comment on this given that they were absolutely certain they'd have something ready to go by the end of last year.

desviper wrote:

What can we get? I think the only confirmation is "no Moguls" which is disappointing.

I think one of the Devs (forget which) pretty much confirmed that the Second Chance would likely not include any option for "player created content" which would presumably not only include Moguls but also anything related to costumes or weapons/props as well.

I think the basic unfortunate conclusion of the Devs was that the amount of extra work they gave themselves to support player designed items was probably deemed to be "too much" for them to efficiently handle so by refusing any new custom requests they could get to a point where they could finish the ones still currently on their plate from the original Kickstarter in a timely manner.

Basically I would expect the Second Chance to be relatively similar to the original Kickstarter without any versions of "Registered Lethal Weapon", "Fashionista" or "Mogul".

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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It is going to be rough to

It is going to be rough to overcome public uncertainty for a second chance. I hope it does really well and kicks things into a new era. There are certainly going to be those who hear about it and think "wait, isn't this that project that started ages ago and had a successful kickstarter back then?"

If people hear about it at all, that is. Here's hoping word can get far and wide. Coordinating with streamers and youtubers that are popular with the target audience could go a very long way for very little cost as one example. Getting a mention on steam's new releases or from an organization like pc gamer would be fantastic, but probably significantly more difficult.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Drone Keeper wrote:

You know, this wild tangent discussion is entertaining. But I'd still like to get more information that is current about when we may actually hope to get some details about what the Second Chance will have available for us. (and maybe when we can get in on it, please, please, please :D )

They've been clear that's not going to happen. No dates, no guesses, and no timeframes from the devs.

Uhm...they've been very clear that is IS GOING TO HAPPEN. When? "This year". What can we get? I think the only confirmation is "no Moguls" which is disappointing.

Uhm... YOU MISUNDERSTOOD ME. I was referring to them giving us a date... THAT is not going to happen. I was not saying issue 0 is not going to happen. Also, can you point me to where they said it would happen this year? Im skeptical they've given that timeframe.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Was worded as "Second Chance

Was worded as "Second Chance very clearly not going to happen", I've gotcha now. I only vaguely remember being referred to as "this year" but they're understandably very wary to give a solid date.

I suspect it'll be fairly sudden: maybe a two week warning before Second Chance/Issue 0.


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In the context of what I was

In the context of what I was referring to, it's clear I'm talking about them giving us info on the release date as that is what was being asked in the comment I replied to. Nowhere in that comment did it talk about whether or not it was going to happen.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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The info we don’t have that

The info we don’t have that we could potentially get a sneak peek for, is what rewards might be available for contributing to the second crowd funding effort. I’m curious about that. But odds are we’re not going to have any kind of ETA for it until just before it goes live.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

The info we don’t have that we could potentially get a sneak peek for, is what rewards might be available for contributing to the second crowd funding effort. I’m curious about that. But odds are we’re not going to have any kind of ETA for it until just before it goes live.

As implied the ETA of the combined Second Chance/Issue 0 is something that will likely remain under wraps for the time being.

As far as what kinds of things the Second Chance will offer contributors it's possible they might be able to "sneak peek" -some- of that now. But considering the release of Issue 0 is completely "joined at the hip" with the Second Chance I'm guessing a good deal of what the Second Chance might provide is completely dependent on what they can get done in software at this point.

Basically the details of the Second Chance will likely be kept vague for the same reasons that the details/ETA of Issue 0 are being kept vague since the things the Second Chance could offer greatly depend on what features they can get working in the software by the time they decide to release Issue 0.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Despite things looking really

Despite things looking really good internally, including that hardware update, there's still a fear of promising or even mentioning dates right now.

Lothic is correct- what gets offered will depend on how much we can do at that time.

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I know there are some folks

I know there are some folks out there who would love to be able to have as much "advanced notice" of an imminent release of Issue 0/Second Chance as possible so they can get time off of work to focus on CoT. On the other hand we don't want a repeat of what happened when everyone was saying "it'll be here by the end of the year" and it wasn't.

At this point I think best compromise going forward is that when MWM is 100% certain they can support a release on a given date that they only announce that date with perhaps a few days notice, maybe a week at most. The idea is that the very moment MWM announces that hard, fixed date they should be 100% committed to the point where it would literally take an Act of God™ to stop it. MWM shouldn't give themselves multiple weeks (or even months) of random slack time in-between the announcing of a date and the actual date where something even semi-trivial could go wrong to stop it. Basically don't "light the fuse" until you're ready to have the fireworks happen.

Everyone on this forum has been waiting for years for this to happen - I'm pretty sure most of us wouldn't be upset at MWM for surprising us with a "sudden release" and the few that would be would likely quickly get over it. ;)

P.S. We must continue to remember that Issue 0 will basically just be a "fancy beta test". We are still a long way off from an "official release" of the game so there's no real need for MWM to follow any kind of standard industry protocols about giving everyone long lead up times between announcement and release. It's a beta test - they can release it whenever and however they want.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I'm sure the people eager to

I'm sure the people eager to see CoT aren't going to be put off by it being a fancy beta test as long as it is clearly and openly communicated as such. Star citizen is basically still a "fancy beta test" right now, and people are loving it. To be fair it is a *very* fancy test, with all sorts of cool stuff, but it is definitely buggy with room to grow...

MWM just has to make sure they set expectations when they are advertising issue 0. They need to get word out if they want attention (and funding) but there will be people that don't look too closely and throw their credit card at their screen only to froth with rage soon after when they don't get what they were expecting. For second chance to work MWM needs to attract lots of people, not just the few that have been following the project closely. Effectively communicating the situation can go a long way in building trust and encouraging people to spend their gamebucks instead of feeling trepidation or worry.

Building hype in general and giving people things to spend money on is another aspect of this too.

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

I'm sure the people eager to see CoT aren't going to be put off by it being a fancy beta test as long as it is clearly and openly communicated as such.

This 100%. There has been a lot of criticism levelled at games in the last few years for launching with a barebones experience or promising things that weren't in the game at launch. MWM has to be 100% clear about what they are launching with as well as their plans for the future.

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Personally, I wouldn't even

Personally, I wouldn't even call a zone with chat and no enemies "fancy beta test." Issue 0 would be closer to a bare-bones alpha on day 1 (or -90 however you want to count :p ).


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Since I joined the forums

Since I joined the forums late I decided to go and kill some time by reading updates starting with the first one. I don't recommend that to new forum-ites...it's not a faith builder. "Not paid", "volunteer", "small budget", etc etc etc are ALL valid. 100%. No question there. But how long can this go on?

2015- (6/25/2015) "...we are looking into next year before we have a complete game in beta. That does not mean we will not be releasing other elements ahead of time. Already, as mentioned before, the costume builder is looking to be ready for testing before the end of this year, and our hope is to include more than just the costume builder itself at that time."

2016- (7/4/2016) "Next year, I want to spend the Fourth with all of you." - is that a reference to being in the full game?

2017- (9/7/2017) "we plan on having backer pre-alpha later this year" (Pax West Presentation)

2018- (9/29/2018) "... we are still on track to get Issue #0 out to backers before the end of the year"

2019- (4/3/2019) "... there's still a fear of promising or even mentioning dates right now "

There is obviously good reason for that fear...

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And you'll never be more

And you'll never be more disappointed at the delays than them :/


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As a backer of the KS, I can

As a backer of the KS, I can say, I wanted the game sooner as well. I also went in knowing there could be a chance of it never happening.

Right now, we're still on the path of it happening, so the question is, why fear it not happening, when it's much better to just be "Gah! I want it now!"

Why be negative? Especially if you never backed it in the first place.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

As a backer of the KS, I can say, I wanted the game sooner as well. I also went in knowing there could be a chance of it never happening.

Right now, we're still on the path of it happening, so the question is, why fear it not happening, when it's much better to just be "Gah! I want it now!"

Why be negative? Especially if you never backed it in the first place.

Lol, getting claws out I see :p


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Weylor wrote:
Weylor wrote:

But how long can this go on?

Eh, sure it's unfortunate that MWM couldn't have snapped their various fingers and had a game for us to play years ago. But I mostly mark that down as a case of "youthful naivety" on MWM's part as a game company.

I think most of the folks at MWM sort of forgot that it usually takes at least 4 or 5 years for even fully funded AAA game companies to produce games of the scale that we're talking about for CoT. When MWM was saying they'd have something for us to play back a few years ago they were being a bit overly optimistic which in retrospect looks bad but again I can excuse it as relative inexperience on their part. Remember most of these people were not game developers before they decided to give this thing a try.

Finally as Brand X pointed out you likely don't have much "skin" in the game as far as Kickstarter donations go so why bother pointing out the "negatives" of the situation when you presumably don't have much to lose if this whole thing fails. Frankly if anyone around here has a "license" to be constantly bitching and moaning about how MWM hasn't delivered any tangible products yet it would be someone like me since I was lucky(?) enough to have made a pretty sizeable donation to this game's Kickstarter effort. The reason I DON'T dwell on that topic is that it doesn't serve me, MWM or anyone else any good to keep harping on something that MWM is already well aware of and doing their best to address.

In a nutshell it'll all keep going until MWM produces something or collectively gives up. What other answer to your question could there be?

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Personally, I wouldn't even call a zone with chat and no enemies "fancy beta test." Issue 0 would be closer to a bare-bones alpha on day 1 (or -90 however you want to count :p ).

Well I was being generous. ;)

My key point was that as a "very pre-launch" alpha/beta test (call it what you want) there's no reason to expect we should have (or need) the same level of pomp and circumstance for Issue 0 that we might get for an official release of a complete game. Test builds come and go as needed - we don't need to be "officially informed" a month ahead of time of when such a thing might be released.

MWM is going to build and re-build this thing hundreds of times between the first release of "Issue 0" and "Issue 1" so we're all going to have plenty of opportunity to test drive this thing before its actual launch day regardless.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Personally, I think the fact

Personally, I think the fact that the project has held together for this long is a positive, even if the game isn't playable yet.

The fact that they haven't made any sort of big fundraising push since the initial kickstarter, and that they've managed the money that they got from that initial KS pretty well, is another positive.

The fact that we continue to get updates -- regularly -- this long after the initial kickstarter is another positive. Failed projects don't put out over 200 updates.

It's a passion project for most (probably all) of the development team. The project still exists because they want the game just as much as we do. That's a huge positive.

The flipside question at this point is "what would be the alternative?"

For me, the game I want doesn't exist at the moment. CoT (still) appears to be the most promising venture in that direction. The fact that they don't have major studio financing is one reason the game is taking as long as it has, but it's ALSO a reason I'm still excited about the project years after that initial Kickstarter. Major studio financing has ruined a lot of games, and pulled the plug on others.

So yeah, it would be great if the game was here and playable, but I still don't see anything out there that currently exists, or is in development, that excites my imagination more.

And it's not costing me anything to be hopeful, and patient.

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Geveo wrote:
Geveo wrote:

... it's not costing ... anything to be hopeful, and patient.

*cartwheels through the air*

*hands YOU a Triple-Decker Veggie Burper with Boysenberry Syrup*

*cartwheels out of this thread*

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Triple-Decker Veggie Burper

Is that some kind of colossal hairball?

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:
Brand X wrote:

As a backer of the KS, I can say, I wanted the game sooner as well. I also went in knowing there could be a chance of it never happening.

Right now, we're still on the path of it happening, so the question is, why fear it not happening, when it's much better to just be "Gah! I want it now!"

Why be negative? Especially if you never backed it in the first place.

Lol, getting claws out I see :p

Nah.

I could see how a backer could be upset, it's the non backers I don't see having a leg to stand on, when it comes to complaints. They didn't put anything in to lose.

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