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Crawling through the web I found this page on NCSoft's page. Honestly don't know what to think of it. Is it to add insult to injury using the Statesman's pic for another game or are they just using archived art for another game. Maybe they still have plans for CoH.
Here is the link [url]https://www.playmxm.com/en/news/thanks-closed-beta-testers[/url]
These are my bases:
CoH Base
https://imgur.com/a/HbskR
Citadel Forged With Fire
https://imgur.com/a/9okUuf1
This again, eh? Yeah, it's pretty clear they really have no regard for the feelings of the former players of CoH/V.
Yeah I think this came up a couple of months ago that NCsoft was planning to use Statesman as a character for their new Master X Master game. As I understood it this new game is just recycling a semi-random mix of characters from a bunch of their other games and that it has nothing to do with an attempt to "restart" CoH in any way.
I suppose it's technically a "slap in the face" to us former CoH players but ultimately NCsoft doesn't give a damn either way - to them he's just another generic character they own and can use as they wish. Frankly I gave up caring what NCsoft does or doesn't do any more. I haven't played a game of theirs since they shutdown CoH and that's probably going to be my status quo for the foreseeable future.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
No idea how this is a slap in the face.
"How dare they use their IP property in a game!"
Is that really what you're saying is a slap in the face?
Before the slap in the face was "How dare they keep the IP under their control if they're not going to use any of it!"
So, which one is it? :p
I think the look on Statesy's face is really goofy in that art. He looks confused or something.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Parsing what I said closely...
you'll see that I said "[b]I suppose it's technically[/b] a slap in the face". To me that phrase implies I'm not totally 100% in agreement with the OP's premise that it was [b]in fact[/b] meant to be a negative action directed towards former CoH players. My position on this point is reinforced when I go on to say "ultimately NCsoft [b]doesn't give a damn either way[/b]" implying that even if this could be taken as an actual intentional dig at us it's probably only by coincidence because, as I concluded, I doubt NCsoft would give a crap either way.
So in answer to your "questions" all I can say is I don't understand how you didn't catch my general "drift" here. *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
It's more of a "I don't see it as technically a slap in the face."
If anything, it's a nod to the CoH players. They're using the CoH IP that people were complaining about them not using before.
I'm sure their use of it, is to maybe drive in more sales and getting some CoH players who miay not have otherwise looked at the game, while also maybe tapping into the superhero players.
But let's be honest, a lot of CoH players now consider everything NCSoft does as crap, purely because we lost our game. Not because they think NCSoft is some cold hearted business, because face it, NCSoft was closing games before they ever closed CoH and none of the players cared :p
the submit button doesn't even work xD
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[color=red]PR - Europe[/color]
Oh I don't fault NCsoft for exercising their IP rights. It's the same reason Disney "reimagines" many of their movie franchises every 10 or 20 years.
But I do think the theory that NCsoft's recyling of Statesman might motivate ex-CoH players (or superhero fans in general) to want to flock to this new game is relatively laughable. Frankly I always thought Statesman was kind of joke in terms of simply being a very poor man's Superman rip-off. I didn't care for him even -before- it was collectively cool to hate on Jack Emmert and for the record I thought it was cool to have the character killed off in CoH. So I'll just say (obviously speaking only for myself) that using Statesman as a "lure" to get me to try Master X Master was probably the dumbest thing NCsoft could have tried.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
"Can't they just f'n let me die already?"
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Nope, because then Zeus does this:
[img]http://www.seganerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/altered-beast-wires-for-your-groin.jpg[/img]
+10 for the Altered Beast quote!
On the edge of your Perceptions......
Turn away and feel his hand upon your shoulder.....
Look for him and he shall not exist.....
in the middle of the crowd....lost in the faces....
Stands a Figure....of Gray......
Now I promise not to spend it all in one place!
Long ago and far away, NC Soft was one of the finest online game companies in the world. They listened closely to their customers and they rewrote game mechanics accordingly. They even sent me a box of goodies when I mentioned I could not participate in the CoH beta because I could not obtain a copy of the game client.
Then, a former child star in America looking for a way to replace his dwindling royalty checks went to Hong Kong and started a company dedicated to buying and selling game assets on the secondary market. Small companies had existed before, and casual sales on eBay by players looking for beer and pizza money were not uncommon, but he set out to create a formal market for what had been a mere handful of minor transactions.
He succeeded, partly as a result of lax Chinese laws about copyright infringement, and partly because a Chinese programmer at NC Soft Shanghai jumped ship and took the Lineage II server software with him. When the former child actor and former programmer joined forces, the modern gold farmer market was born and spread into every single major online game in existence. Self-organizing, AI-driven bots became more common than sweatshops and harder to detect. NC Soft lost tens of millions of dollars in South Korea, and their South Korean customers staged a violent, six-month long protest right outside both the main offices in Seoul and the founder's country estate. The price of NC Soft stock dropped through the floor. The primary stakeholders sold off so much stock in an effort to stop their losses that the entire senior management team wound up owning a mere 12% of the company while two of their subsidiaries owned 17% and 22%, so the subsidiaries sued for control. NC Soft tried to launch a dozen new titles, but none of them produced enough revenue to pay for court costs, so they began cutting. CoH was only one of the casualties. In addition to games, NC Soft fired their entire customer relations staff and began tailoring their products to a small core of extremely wealthy South Korean gamers who poured, literally, millions of dollars into their game playing.
And thus we have today's NC Soft. If an individual doesn't spend a quarter million dollars a year on gameplay, NC Soft has no incentive to listen to that individual's concerns. The only market they genuinely care about is South Korean internet cafes. Everything else, including you and I, are basically charity, a minor concession to the internet gaming blogs and magazines they depend on for free advertising in the form of positive reviews.
So yes, the inclusion of Statesman in Master x Master is, in fact, a warning shot across the bow of every CoH-inspired game being developed. It is intended as a humiliation to put former CoH players back in their corner and remind who owns their beloved game. I have heard that the person charged with developing Statesman for MxM "insisted" on developing the character as an "apology" to the fans, which is entirely possible on an individual level, but I guarantee you that is not why Kim Taek-Jin and his inner circle approved it.
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Never hated Statesman, but he wasn't my favorite either. He was CoH's Superman.
CoT has their own crappy version of Superman. Forgot her name already. I just know I feel she is and looks like, a very crappy character. She feels to very much be a devs pet character, which was a big complaint about Statesman. Though, for some reason, I'm not hearing the same complaints going on about her. Likely just need to wait for the game to go live. :p
I disagree that Anthem is a 'Superman'. She is a much more complex character. And if I understand all that's being said, the Devs plan to use her in a much more useful and friendly way than Statesman was, in CoH. We player characters won't be relegated to sidekick by the Paragons.
I expect that, the reason you're not hearing complaints is because of that different treatment, but Also because we simply don't know that much about any of the Paragons. Have to wait and see.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I think if you look closely and think about it, Statesman can be seen as more an homage to Superman and Shazam with a dash of Captain America. Definitely not "cool" from the perspective of anyone who doesn't like classic golden aged iconic heroes, but very appropriate in a game that's genre was clearly stated to be intentionally based mainly on classic American comics.
Agreed. She looks to be a step grittier and more complex than Statesman, yet still classic and iconic. No, she's not anime-themed or post-modern counter-cultural, but, again, MWM has made no bones about the fact that the prevailing genre of the game is going to be the same as City of Heroes--as it kind of has to be in an openly declared and publicly supported spiritual successor to that game.
While just like in CoH, people will be able to play any way they want and create anything they are able to within the game, for people who just can't abide an overriding classic comics feel, it might not be the perfect game for them. CoT can and should be broad and inclusive in how the game is used by players like CoH was, but it can't be all things to all people. Shooting for that is always a fools errand.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
CoT's version of Superman doesn't have to be Superman. She can be weaker. However, I'll give it, she may be more Captain America. However, disagree on her being a more complex character. Right now, that just comes out as "I miss CoH, I hope lots of good things for CoT, they can do no wrong"
Also, never felt like a side kick to the Paragons. What did they do? They gave out missions. :p They didn't join us. If you thought them giving out missions made you a sidekick, what did you think of those normal human mission givers? o.O
Interesting words you put in my mouth there, Brand. Completely disregarding what I actually said, and the possibility that I genuinely like what MWM is doing. Or that, if I do like what they are doing, I could possibly be anything other than sadly wrong. Much less the possibility that what I actually said might be my real opinion and not just servile blither in desperate support of a path that I'm just not smart enough to see is wrong.
Easy to win an argument when you take it upon yourself to interpret for both sides. But I would like to bring your attention to the possibility that maybe I'm intelligent and self-possessed enough to actually say what I mean and mean what I say, and that I might--just might--not even be completely wrong.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Wow. You didn't read. I said and let's cap it just for you "JUST COMES OUT AS" that part of the statement means, it doesn't have to be the case. :p It's just how, when /I/ read the posts, it almost always comes out sounding like.
How can it not, with so much of this "Oh yay! Like this new character!" "Oh yay! Like the characters redesign even more!"
I've yet to see an important NPC I might like the look of until I believe it was an updated Rottweiler look. And the backgrounds come across as a lot of either being taken from a CoH NPC (which if I see it, means NCSoft may see it, which by the way...is not a good thing) or a badly written bio on a passing by hero when I was playing CoH. :p
Oh, I read. I read well. Nice assumptive condescension again, though.
Sigh. Ok. "How can it not, with so much of this 'Oh yay! Like this new character!' 'Oh yay! Like the characters redesign even more!'"
Maybe because I do like them? That's how.
"I've yet to see an important NPC I might like the look of until I believe it was an updated Rottweiler look. And the backgrounds come across as a lot of either being taken from a CoH NPC (which if I see it, means NCSoft may see it, which by the way...is not a good thing) or a badly written bio on a passing by hero when I was playing CoH. :p"
Over all, I do like the look and backgrounds in general. I simply disagree with you. But the fact that I disagree with you doesn't make me the slavish fanboy you stated that I "just come out as" to you.
Look, we don't have to keep arguing this. I just didn't like the condescending way you characterized me and my opinions as
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/0hQyd5L.gif[/img]
I know. I know. I'm done. I took the bait. Got hooked. My bad :/.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
There was no trolling. There was no baiting. I made an over all general statement of the feeling I get from a /majority/ of comments made so far. If you feel that you aren't part of the majority, there was really no reason for you to respond as if you felt it did cover you.
*eats popcorn meme*
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
Once upon a time I offered a path for adding depth to the story of Anthem and her Vambrace. It didn't go over too well.
https://cityoftitans.com/forum/history-phoenix-vambrace-not-statue-central-square
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My author page at Amazon: https://amzn.to/2MPvkRX
My novelty shirts: https://amzn.to/31Sld32
I do feel that I am probably overall with the majority here in how I feel about this game.
I also feel that it's best if this is the last post that I make in this particular conversation. I took it in an unproductive direction.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I remember that discussion and I thought it went well enough. The only issue, as far as I can see, is that, 'back then' was too early to be finalizing Lore. As I recall, yours also wasn't the only high-quality proposal for background on Anthem and American Star. I do hope that Composition has bookmarked those discussions!
There are times when I feel like I should volunteer, I've a lively interest in storytelling, myth and legend, which could be useful in building Lore and Story, but I've got enough troubles as it is.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Good luck! Ive reached out to them offering help but had no answer lol. Maybe they are doing fine right now.
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
I don't know if we're in the majority, but I'm definitely with you: I really like Anthem as a lead signature character.
Spurn all ye kindle.
I have no issues with Anthem as a signature character as well. And for the record I didn't mind Statesman either.
Honestly I find I rarely even care about/am generally ambivalent towards the "signature characters" in a game. I never really liked or disliked most of CoH's big hero names, and only really liked Ghostwidow redside.
I thought Doc Buzzsaw, Vanessa DeVore, Faathim the Kind, Jim Temblor and Penny Yin were really interesting though, so I guess I'm more a fan of the small-time heroes/villains and their doings than the ones in the spotlight.
My favorite of the CoT characters revealed thus far fits this assesment, as Lady Latoki herself prefers to stay more in the background. (BY THE WAY, whatever happened to the rest of the "The 12" article series? We only ever got the first article(1-4) and thus far it hasn't seen the light of day again.)
I have to admit to being largely ambivalent about the Paragons; the signature characters were never what made CoH CoH for me, and i imagine it's going to be the same in CoT. I just don't particularly care about them in the context of the game.
On the other hand, Anthem? I very much like her as a defined character. "Filling the big man's shoes" is a really neat character arc that they can potentially do a lot with and actually make her interesting. We'll see how she shapes up.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
I like Anthem, a lot. I think her concept is pretty amazing! 1) She's a person of color; 2) She's an amputee; 3) She's a bad ass. I'll have to see her in action before i can say much more.
I liked Statesman. People are saying that he was the "poor man's Superman". If that just means he's weaker, power-wise, then that's fine. It isn't true, but it's fine. Superman should never have been as powerful as he was written to be over the years. He's just been forced to gain ever more powers in order to survive bad writing. And he's not alone. Nearly every major hero, in every series, by both DC and Marvel has suffered from "powers ex machina". And a lot of retconning of backstories. Wonder Woman. Spiderman. Wolverine. Flash. Mystique. And of course, our boy, Supes. Just to name six out of hundreds. Statesman was a shallow character because they never really did much with him. But the little they did do was interesting, at least to me. He and Recluse were the original Incarnates. Their powers came from the Well of the Furies. And it is because of their contributions, along with Hero 1, that Paragon City and the Rogue Isles even had a chance. That said, Statesman was no Superman.
I really, really like Superman! And i like him in spite of some of his more over-the-top moments. Specifically, i'm speaking of the Kal El / Clark Kent, dude from Krypton, version of Superman. I like him because of who he is. Superheroes, at least to me, aren't meant to be "normal", in the sense that they give in to all of the basic human impulses and follies. They are meant to be "super", in the sense that they show the best qualities human beings have to offer. They are meant to show us who we can be when we're at our best. When we embrace virtue over instinct. They fight villains and super villains in order to bring their strongest personal virtues into relief and contrast. I like Superman for the same reason i like The Doctor (from Doctor Who) -- They both represent Good in extremis: "Only in darkness are we revealed. Goodness is not goodness that seeks advantage. Good is good in the final hour, in the deepest pit. Without hope, without witness, without reward. Virtue is only virtue in extremis." (Credit: Doctor Who ep. 'Extremis'.)
Crucially, what we see with these modern superheroes, that we didn't see much or at all with the heroes from ancient myths, is how the normal people in their lives help them overcome their human frailty and weakness. If not for Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Jonathan and Martha Kent, and even Lex Luthor, you can be sure Kal El would not have risen to become a paragon of Good and Justice. When it comes to people hating on Superman, and Superman-like characters, i just don't get it.
As for NCSoft, i get that they didn't just turn to the dark side on a whim. And thank you for the further insight, Greyhawk. But we all have choices in life. The weight and consequences of those choices are magnified for content creators. Gold farming and related activities are a blight on our world.
Maybe i still just don't understand the full scope of their situation. I'm certainly not infallible, and would love to explore the facts in more detail, but it seems to me that selling off the CoX IP rights to Paragon Studios, even for literally one dollar plus future royalties would have been a more profitable move than hanging on to it, shutting it down, and generating nothing but ill will. They could have been collecting royalty payments for the last 5 years, and been generating interest in their other games and products in the Western market. Instead, they've made quite a few life-long enemies.
Supercowboyman?
[img]http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Action-Comics_134.jpg[/img]
Ahem. It's Super-Cowboy. Says it right there on the cover, buddy :P.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I stand corrected!
It's not a slap in the face to the fans.
It's just NCSoft sticking their hand into another sock puppet that they continue to own.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]