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Mission Creator question

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Gluke
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Mission Creator question

Will we be able to upload sound files of our own into UGC, enabling us to create our own SFX and use our own music files as soundtracks? How do-able is this?

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islandtrevor72
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Its doable...probably not

Its doable...probably not safe though for various reasons.

Gluke
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islandtrevor72 wrote:
islandtrevor72 wrote:

Its doable...probably not safe though for various reasons.

All submitted UGC would be screened and/or monitored anyway

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Tannim222
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There is no feasible way to

There is no feasible way to ensure that every single possible user-generated content would be screened and "monitored" to ensure safety. If anything, the possiblity to house your own modified UCG on your own server may be possible (no promises), but it would be at the explicit risk of the creator and anyone they invited to their private domain. Anything officially released into actual Missing World's game environment would have to be only officially provided content creation tools.

It may be possible to mod sound files on the user's end so while other players would here the officially provided content creation files, the player with modified files would here their own version. Though there are risks with modifying any game file even on the user's end, whether provided officially or not is another matter.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Though there are risks with modifying any game file even on the user's end, whether provided officially or not is another matter.

Even assuming CoT is going to allow the same kind of "client-only" mods that CoH did it would still be a matter of moding the right files on an individual player's machine to make it all work. Basically for Player A to be able to play Player B's UGC public server mission and hear the exact music that player B intended Player A would have to go through the effort of obtaining the right sound files and modding their own client with those files. Not impossible, but certainly far from "clean and simple".

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
Though there are risks with modifying any game file even on the user's end, whether provided officially or not is another matter.

Even assuming CoT is going to allow the same kind of "client-only" mods that CoH did it would still be a matter of moding the right files on an individual player's machine to make it all work. Basically for Player A to be able to play Player B's UGC public server mission and hear the exact music that player B intended Player A would have to go through the effort of obtaining the right sound files and modding their own client with those files. Not impossible, but certainly far from "clean and simple".

*remembers having to redo mods due to patches reverting the files back to what they were meant to be*

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Kiyori Anoyui
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Yeah, official is probably

Yeah, official is probably the only way to go. If anything they could just have a data bank of sounds that you could choose to put in your missions. So your little bunny enemies could sound like dragons or whatever options they give.

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islandtrevor72
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When I said 'various reason'
Quote:

All submitted UGC would be screened and/or monitored anyway.

When I said 'various reason' I did not just mean offensive content or restricted content..

Server assaults, compatibility issues, viruses and unneeded/wanted updates are also things to consider when the general public can insert home made files. As Tannim said....

Quote:

There is no feasible way to ensure that every single possible user-generated content would be screened and "monitored" to ensure safety..

So it becomes a case of...'is the gain worth the risk'. In this case I don't think it is personally....its probably better to do as Kiyori Anoyui suggested with:

Quote:

have a data bank of sounds that you could choose to put in your missions.

And even that might not provide the value to investment ratio to make it worthwhile.

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Aww.

Aww.

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Copyright laws also effect

Copyright laws also effect music uploads. All it takes is one guy to unknowingly upload the wrong tune and its lawsuit time for MWM.
Copyright alone dooms any user uploads in a game like this.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

Copyright laws also effect music uploads. All it takes is one guy to unknowingly upload the wrong tune and its lawsuit time for MWM.
Copyright alone dooms any user uploads in a game like this.

googlng shows there are a few Music Identification APIs being developed:
[url=http://picard.musicbrainz.org/]MusicBrainz Picard[/url], uses [url=https://acoustid.org/]AcoustID[/url] which is OpenSource
[url=http://echoprint.me/]Echoprint[/url] OpenSource
etc...
Worst case, use an API to create a Video and upload to YouTube and once its done processing.. use the API to check if any Copyrighted music was found. Ehhh... YouTube is slow sometimes, so might want to check after 24 hrs or so. :/

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Cyclops wrote:
Copyright laws also effect music uploads. All it takes is one guy to unknowingly upload the wrong tune and its lawsuit time for MWM.
Copyright alone dooms any user uploads in a game like this.

googlng shows there are a few Music Identification APIs being developed:MusicBrainz Picard, uses AcoustID which is OpenSourceEchoprint OpenSource
etc...
Worst case, use an API to create a Video and upload to YouTube and once its done processing.. use the API to check if any Copyrighted music was found. Ehhh... YouTube is slow sometimes, so might want to check after 24 hrs or so. :/

Those are not perfect.

I know of *numerous* people who have had their VOD's muted on Twitch TV because of the ingame music being a licensed song; and that is by using similar API's (Audible Magic's service).

Ironically it also caught games that actually had "copyright free" music included in them (which is why Twitch also provides a list of background/copywrite music that is 'safe to play' in your audio stream).

So *personally* speaking, it would make sense to pre-vet a whole range of music at the start as being suitable for inclusion in this case (even if it just from a drop down box in the game at the start) before you start opening it up wider and wider.

Hell, we all know the problems that CoX had with its mission creator and labelling/mission/mob/character names (Persil for example is one name that I know you couldn't use.... there isn't a superhero named that as far as I can tell. It is however a brand name washing powder in the UK).

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

islandtrevor72
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I think Izzy meant to use

I think Izzy meant to use those programs as way to help see if your music file is in violation....player side.... before uploading.

Gangrel
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islandtrevor72 wrote:
islandtrevor72 wrote:

I think Izzy meant to use those programs as way to help see if your music file is in violation....player side.... before uploading.

How would you deal with music from [url=http://ocremix.org]OCRemix[/url]. If you are going to be using the music in something (a youtube video, Twitch stream) you are free to do so. However, you cannot profit directly from it.

If you are going to profit from it, then you need to get in touch with the artist themselves.

This could mean that you wouldn't be able to "sell" the Custom mission in any shape or form. Now, you could argue that selling the ability to create/play Custom Mission doesn't violate this.

I am not saying that this is 100% correct... just saying that there are things out there that might not be as clear cut as you would think. This stuff might pass the API checks, but still fail.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Cyclops
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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

islandtrevor72 wrote:
I think Izzy meant to use those programs as way to help see if your music file is in violation....player side.... before uploading.

How would you deal with music from OCRemix. If you are going to be using the music in something (a youtube video, Twitch stream) you are free to do so. However, you cannot profit directly from it.
If you are going to profit from it, then you need to get in touch with the artist themselves.
This could mean that you wouldn't be able to "sell" the Custom mission in any shape or form. Now, you could argue that selling the ability to create/play Custom Mission doesn't violate this.
I am not saying that this is 100% correct... just saying that there are things out there that might not be as clear cut as you would think. This stuff might pass the API checks, but still fail.

With people paying subscriptions and buying vanity game stuff it would count as making a profit even if the creator does not profit, the game venue does. There would be no mission without the game.

Copyright kills the whole idea.sorry-I cannot see how this could even work.

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Gangrel
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That is indeed one point of

That is indeed one point of view.

However MWM could make the argument that they are not selling the music track, and that they would be making the same amount of money if the music track was used or not used...

Which side is actually correct?

Side note: And if you get the artists permission, you COULD well be allowed to use it.

There are several pieces of music that I have access to that I am allowed to do with as I please (stream/play for a radio station as an example) that YOU (as in pretty much anyone else who just has the music on their computer) wouldn't be allowed to do the same thing. I have the rights to do it, you don't. Not unless you get in touch with the artist.

Which then brings me back to my earlier point of maybe just having a preset list of tunes that could be used (similar to how twitch does it). They don't supply the music *directly* just link to where they go "The stuff posted here is fine to use. Go hog wild with it"

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

islandtrevor72
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Quote:
Quote:

How would you deal with music from OCRemix. If you are going to be using the music in something (a youtube video, Twitch stream) you are free to do so. However, you cannot profit directly from it. .

I wouldn't upload others music to begin with. But if I did I would probably use a program like one Izzy suggested to quickly check first. Then if it passed I would check deeper. If it didn't I would not have wasted time hand checking.

Much as I suspect Izzy was suggesting.

I said from the beginning that I found it unlikely we will be given the option to upload any sounds...music or otherwise. Copyrite music is probably the least concern I have in regards to this suggestion.....it could easily be overcome by just not allowing the sound files to exceed 5 seconds in length.

Gangrel
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islandtrevor72 wrote:
islandtrevor72 wrote:

Quote:
How would you deal with music from OCRemix. If you are going to be using the music in something (a youtube video, Twitch stream) you are free to do so. However, you cannot profit directly from it. .
I wouldn't upload others music to begin with. But if I did I would probably use a program like one Izzy suggested to quickly check first. Then if it passed I would check deeper. If it didn't I would not have wasted time hand checking.
Much as I suspect Izzy was suggesting.
I said from the beginning that I found it unlikely we will be given the option to upload any sounds...music or otherwise. Copyrite music is probably the least concern I have in regards to this suggestion.....it could easily be overcome by just not allowing the sound files to exceed 5 seconds in length.

Those short sound files are also covered by copy write as well, just so you are aware.

However, those API's don't search for that stuff.

The thing is, whilst YOU might not do something, doesn't meant that someone else wouldn't upload something. So although it would suck, it would be better to put everthing through the file/audio checking process "just in case someone DOES" do something wrong.

Half the time, this is why we cannot have nice things.

So what would actually stop me from uploading ALL of the CoX sound effect files? I mean, I have them on my computer as we speak, and they are shorter than 5 seconds.

Or the sound effects from Tabula Rasa? Or World of Warcraft.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

islandtrevor72
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Quote:
Quote:

The thing is, whilst YOU might not do something, doesn't meant that someone else wouldn't upload something. So although it would suck, it would be better to put everthing through the file/audio checking process "just in case someone DOES" do something wrong..

You asked me what 'I' would do....and I told you. If you asked how the game should deal with it I would say they shouldn't do it at all. The gain is not worth the effort. Just like I said before.

Quote:

So what would actually stop me from uploading ALL of the CoX sound effect files? I mean, I have them on my computer as we speak, and they are shorter than 5 seconds..

Read what I said again.... copyrite music is the least concern because it could be overcome by not allowing more than 5 seconds. Not sound effects.....music. But any kind of copyrite is not the concern I have with this suggestion. Its what the awful individuals out there could do with home brewed files.

Quote:

Those short sound files are also covered by copy write as well, just so you are aware..

I was not trying to get into a debate over the changing and ridiculous nature of copyrite laws. In MOST cases a short excerpt of a song would fall into the fair use category.

All I was trying to say was that the programs IZZy suggested were not intended to be a replacement for human involvement and instead were to be a tool the 'player' could use to HELP determine a songs or sound files safe use. Pointing out that API's are not perfect to make your own argument was misrepresenting Izzy's suggestion ...especially when you can see he also said to use youtube as another check and balance showing he understood it was not perfect..

Just so we are clear....no one.......NO ONE ....is saying those programs are perfect. They are a tool you can use in addition to other tools like google or direct communication with the artist. A hammer is but one of the tools you use to build a house.