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Please read the current update for instructions on downloading the latest update. Players with Mac versions of the game will not be affected, but you will have a slightly longer wait for your version of the new maps. Please make a copy of your character folder before running the new update, just to make sure you don't lose any of your custom work.
It looks like we can give everyone a list of minimum specs for running City of Titans. Please keep in mind that this is 'for now' until we are able to add more graphics and other system refinements. Currently you will need :
Windows 10 or later required; no Intel integrated graphics like UHD, must have AMD or NVIDIA card or discrete chipset with 4Gb or more of VRAM
At least 16GB of main DRAM.
These stats may change as we continue to test.
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Just wanted to have an actual thread for Linux users to sound off their support. :3 I imagine building for SteamOS would make the most sense.
What distro are you using, Linux users?
I'm on Manjaro KDE.
Did you play CoH on Linux? I sure did! :D I ran it through Crossover Games.
Looking forward to a AAA superhero MMO that runs natively on Linux! :D
I know Nate wants to make a Linux version it's a long term goal won't be at release.
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
so, at the least a working 'howto' for linux users to run the windows version is needed
some of us just don't want windows, no matter what (sure it is ONLY $100 or so, but... it is the principle of it, of course [fsf, gnu-linux all the way, or no-way at all])
sure would be nice if there was a program that recompiled windows software automatically so it ran on linux natively (hint, hint?) ... [lol, sry... was that too much?]
ok, to wishing for a better world
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linux version can happen if enough people get onboard (linux is free-dom based, so people should be happy to work for peanuts to make this happen, literally... if you throw them some peanuts, it will probably get done)
\`|'/
Not for nothing but this entire game is currently being created "for peanuts" so I wouldn't get too pushy about a Linux version getting an unjustifiably high priority.
I understand the whole "Linux is cool and Window$ sucks" thing and I'm not saying a native Linux version of CoT should absolutely never be made. But let's keep things realistic by remembering it's already going to be a semi-amazing thing if this game gets launched under -any- OS much less an OS that, less face facts, is at the very least not in the "mainstream" as far as general MMO support goes.
The idea of getting a Linux native version of CoT is a nice thing to think about. Unicorns and flying pigs are nice things to think about too. At this point if a Linux version of CoT happens at all it'll be long, long after launch and probably literally years after someone will have figured out how to get the Windows version working nicely under Linux.
All I'm saying is that I wouldn't really be holding my breath over something like this. There will literally be hundreds of more important features and updates needed for this game after launch than "native Linux support". That's not just an opinion on its importance as an OS - that's just simple numbers talking. A relatively large engineering effort that would only benefit a relatively tiny fraction of the playerbase should not get a high priority regardless of what it is.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Seeing as they met the kickstarter target for mac... I can see a version for Linux being easier in conjuction with the mac version.
If the Mac stretch goal *hadn't* been met, then yes... I see the problem
I never said a native Linux version of CoT would be impossible to implement. I just strongly implied I would be surprised to see it prioritized above literally hundreds of other more arguably important and/or generally useful aspects of the game.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
The quickest way for CoT to be supported natively on Linux would be for Epic to add the support to the engine. They do support Mac, which is why it wasn't the highest of stretch goals (if i remember right, the main thing they needed to do was buy a couple of Macs for testing).
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Seeing as Epic have (or are soon to release) Linux support for the Unreal Engine 4...
If Epic can be used to get CoT working on Linux boxes with effectively no effort on the part of the CoT Devs to make that work then I'd obviously be fine with it. My main point (which may admittedly sound a bit harsh to the Linux-lovers out there) is that I honestly don't think the CoT Devs should waste any significant effort on porting CoT to Linux until well after the game has launched.
Once again it's going to be hard enough to get this game going on ANY platform to be diverting precious resources towards making it work for a relatively tiny segment of the potential playerbase. I have nothing against Linux per se - I just want the game up and running for the largest segments of the playerbase as fast as possible before serious effort is spent on the outliers.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I agree that CoT shouldn't be built for Linux unless the Unreal 4 engine runs on Linux. Trying to port the engine, when that work is already being done by others, would be a bad idea.
If the engine is ported, it could make sense to support a Linux build. I don't think MWM is short on volunteered talent; looking at the volunteering forum, I suspect that they are in a position where more people are volunteering to help than they can effectively use. I would guess the bottleneck on the programming side is less on the number of programmers that would like to help and more on either the ability to effectively organize them or a lack of specific programming skills.
My guess is that Linux support might be something that could be split off as a separate group, with a few volunteers responsible for building on Linux and fixing Linux specific issues. Further, if you want to support it, it is easiest to support it from the beginning, since it lets you nip possible cross-platform portability issues in the bud rather than waiting for them to propagate through your code base and needing to modify lots of working code to do a port at a later time. You would need to have access to qualified volunteers interested in doing that for that to be an option, of course.
It is a legitimate decision not to support Linux at all though. It doesn't exactly have a ton of users in the desktop space, and it is entirely possible that CoT will end up being playable through wine anyway if you do nothing. If you decide you do want to support it in the future though, I believe it is probably worth trying to do it from the start if you can find qualified volunteers who are willing to support it.
I realize that it would likely be easier to port CoT to Linux if it was planned as early as possible in the development cycle of the overall game. But that's the Catch-22 with this - the more effort you put into trying to "prepare" the groundwork for an easy Linux port the more effort you're actually spending working on such a port regardless of when/if you actually plan to implement it.
Frankly I'd rather the CoT Devs completely deprioritze trying to get CoT to work natively with Linux in the near term, even if that might mean that in the long run it'd make the re-engineering for a clean port harder to do. As you point out any effort towards that goal will likely be accomplished as a "side project" anyway so it ultimately doesn't really matter how long it takes or how hard it turns out to be. Remember the whole idea of a Linux port would be a "nice to have", not a "core necessity".
The primary goal should always be to get the game proper launched and working, period. If the methods towards that main goal make secondary things like a possible Linux port harder to do in the long run then we as the playerbase should be willing to accept that compromise for the greater good.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Epic is planning on SteamOS support to be included with Unreal Engine 4.1. How easy it will be to migrate our work to 4.1 when it comes out is a question up in the air at the moment. I do not anticipate any issues, but I have learned not to promise until the eggs have not only hatched but have matured into young adulthood.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
If it turns out something like this could be done with as much effort as it takes to snap one's fingers then I'm all for it. I simply wouldn't want an undue amount of time and effort spent on this before the basic core game is up and running.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
We do not know yet. I will say that getting Mac going has been surprisingly easy. Actually, Mac builds easier than Windows, which is boggling me somewhat.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
you do realize that linux is the wave of the future right? the ubiquitous star-trek-like computer will be linux, period. (basically gnu-linux, of course)
and the peanus quip was meant to signify that if you just put on the proper attitude there are likely many linux experts who will help you for nothing at all (what i meant by literally throwing peanuts at them, they will be happy for the challenge, a bone to knaw on... make them sign NDA's and give them free game-boxes)
i would see it as an interesting challenge to race the various distros to completion, windows v. mac v. linux
instead of linux being a drag on resources, it SHOULD be a boost to overall productivity; if not... then linux should just die, because that is what it claims to be, the future of computing
aar, i guess there aren't any real linux experts reading this... yet (optimism def. pessimism)
lol, glhf
\`|'/
Ironically despite the tone of my previous posts on this thread I've been happily working with Linux systems professionally for years.
While I have nothing against Linux as an OS it's still pretty obvious that it's not the "goto" OS for gaming. Sure plenty of mainsteam games can be made to work under Linux, but as far MMOs being designed specifically for native Linux support it's not likely to happen anytime soon, if ever.
Linux may be the "OS of the future" as far as professional work goes. But until it gets as commercially popular for the "common man" as Win or Mac have become game designers are not going to treat it as a primary OS to worry about.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I am adding my full support for a Linux version of City of Titans. Thats all.
Come now.. tell the Truth..
You just want to see it on a Steam Box. ;)
And Oh yea.. im predicting we will have ALLOT of those in 2 years time or LESS.
Steam boxes may indeed start to become popular in the next few years. But given that Steam boxes are supposed to be able to run Windows and OS X games (via Steam and SteamPlay) there's still no majority market share reason for MWM to spend effort to create (and then continually support) a native Linux version of CoT. If in 5 or 10 years Windows and OS X completely collapse and machines running SteamOS become the only platforms people run games on then maybe porting CoT directly to them would make some sense.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Well, there is one reason to support it:
Linux developer boxes make Android porting easier for the apps.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
The machines Devs use to create apps/programs usually don't have much to do with the types of devices users will use to run those apps/programs. I have never suggested the Devs of CoT shouldn't use Linux-based machines if it'll make their jobs easier.
As Han Solo might say I'm simply trying my best to save you from doing any additional "good against remotes" work here. If on the other hand you eventually decide there are in fact enough players out there who'd actually significantly benefit from having a natively Linux based version of CoT then more power to you for providing it.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
What Linux Distro do you use professionally if you don't mind me asking? People that are against a game being ported to Linux always claim to also use it and then also claim to it not being good as a gaming platform, which is a very false notion. I have been using Linux for over a decade and I can guarantee you that Linux is just as good a gaming platform as Windows (Faster even) and it's a hell of a lot better than Mac. You strike me as someone that doesn't know much about Linux with some of the posts that you are throwing out there. Linux when configured/optimized correctly by the user and with the right Distro, can run games a lot faster and with less resources being consumed than both Windows and Mac can. Did you know that the Linux version of Left for Dead 2 runs faster/smoother than the windows version? Ask developers like Valve/Aspyr/Feral Interactive or all the other developers that are developing and have developed games for Linux if Linux is not a gaming platform. Linux is the future my friend, Developers are starting to realize it after Valve opened their eyes, and the quicker programmers learn to develop on it, the better off they will be in the future. Unreal Engine 4 has support for Linux by the way, mainly because Epic realizes that in the future a lot of more gamers will be on Linux, so they are future proofing their engine. They even have their development tools working natively on Linux, thanks to the linux community compiling their development environment within hours of them releasing the source code on github.
I've used several versions of Linux, not to mention multiple flavors of Unix (including SunOS, IRIX and AIX), VMS, Win, OS/2, Mac OS and DOS over 20+ years. Unlike you I DON'T have a religious devotion to any one particular OS because I have found that each of them have their pros and cons.
But let me make this perfectly clear right now: I didn't "attack" your particular favorite denomination of Linux (as if I could care which one that is) because I thought Linux in general isn't any good at running "games". The fact that they might run something like CoT "a lot faster and with less resources being consumed" is actually immaterial to my earlier points.
I don't care how worthy of worship you think Linux is - the FACT is that right now in 2014 it's still of MINORITY usage in terms of consumer level products like this. Sure we can all assume Linux will take over the world and a few years from now that's all that anyone will be running anything on. I MYSELF already strongly implied that I believe Linux will likely have a much more prominent position in the consumer marketplace at some point. But unlike you I KNOW that will still be some number of years in the future. You've clearly drunk enough of the Linux [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid]Kool-Aid[/url] to mistakenly think it's ready for all that RIGHT THIS SECOND when it obviously isn't.
But don't get your panties in a bunch - I don't "hate" Linux because I think its a bad OS. I just don't see it as a priority for CoT because of its relative lack of market share in the end-user gaming market. The folks at MWM are working with the proverbial "shoestring" budget and literally have no extra money to support ANYTHING that's remotely outside the mainstream. It's actually going to be a minor miracle if they can get CoT out and running on ANY OS much less one on the fringes of the gaming community. I'm sorry but it's really just as simple as that. *shrugs*
Now ONCE AGAIN if the folks at MWM actually decide it's a worthwhile priority to deliver a native Linux version of CoT I'm not going to be mad/upset over it. But by the same token if they don't it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Perhaps my best advice to you is don't get too butthurt over it if it doesn't happen because I promise you there are legitimate business/engineering reasons for it not to happen.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
In all fairness, we are building versions on SteamOS. It is not a guarantee for release at launch, but we are keeping the option open.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
By all means keep options like that open. All I'm saying is if for whatever conceivable reason possible something like that imposes any kind of difficultly or extra work on MWM then it should be instantly DE-prioritized in favor of it being done AFTER the general launch of the game. Nothing that would only benefit a relative minority of the playerbase is worth any extra delays or headaches on anyone's part.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Its also Very Plausible that 80% of the Steam Boxes will have some sort of Dual Boot feature...(hackish LILO or other?) with SteamOS, plus Windows or Mac, for running Steam... for games that havent been ported to SteamOS(Linux) just yet. :)
rEFInd maybe?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/qfjKAia.png[/img]
SteamOS is a Debian Linux-based operating system in development by Valve Corporation designed to be the primary operating system for the Steam Machine game consoles.[2] It was initially released on December 13, 2013, alongside the start of end-user beta testing of Steam Machines.
that means Debian, Ubuntu, Mint etc: should not be a hard stretch if a Steam OS version gets done. We can wait for that. But saying that no mainstream MMOs run on Linux so we shouldn't have one - doesn't sound like a good argument to me. I run Windows - really ONLY for Guild Wars 2 (Previously City of Heroes - since launch) If I had the option to load and run a NON-Wine based solution, Windows is DONE for me. It was needed for Netflix - until Chromecast came along - there are MANY of us out here that want to leave the Windows world. I try to migrate everyone I know to linux when their XP boxes got orphaned.
This "mindset" is one of the things that irks me the most about native Linux support in games, since it sets up a Catch-22 situation. I do understand why companies do it, I just don't like it and I do hope that more companies can take the "risk" of doing proper initial multi-platform launches, especially now that more and more middleware are getting proper multi-platform support.
According to Ryan C. Gordon a few years ago doing it properly from the start you can "get away" with only one person doing it as a part of their overall work.
[b]One of the major reasons publishers and developers give for not releasing a Linux version of their games is that the demand doesn't justify the extra development cost. Having been involved in this process numerous times to do this very thing, what do you think about this stance?[/b]
I think it's short-sighted. A one-man team--me--can take a completed game and port it to Linux. Usually this is pretty fast and cheap.
If they had concerned themselves with portability right from the start, there would be no problem at all. Maybe have a single Linux (or Mac, or whatever) developer on the team, who would be responsible for that platform but otherwise is just building the game the same as everyone else. No doubt some of their time would be spent on platform-specific issues, but this cost would be amortized into the project. Also, as they find bugs that are exposed through cross-platform development (which are otherwise hidden until your customers find them for you), it's possible you save time and money.
Blizzard has a handful of Mac developers that maintain all their titles in a similar fashion. It's an insanely small portion of their devteam, and it's clearly been profitable for them.
I thought I should follow up with a little bit of what our present strategy is.
Please bear in mind that like all things, this is very early and subject to change.
Most of the tech department are unix or linux guys by active or near-recent trade so we have it a bit disproportionally high on our priorities list but we're determined to try and not be too silly unrealistic.
Epic has shown that they are treating SteamOS as a first class competitor amoungst their supported platforms and so long as that holds, we anticipate that SteamOS will be able to be a plus one build for us so long as we're able to do appropriate dependency dances along the way.
Steam support on Linuxes in general is growing as well, between community problem solves and Valve/Steam improvements.
Working with the assumptions that that continues - or at least doesn't decay, we expect that the average Linux gamer will be able to *either* set up their preferred distro to cope with Steam, dualboot to SteamOS, or have a compatible enough environment to run without Steam.
As such, we're testing primarily against two environments that we feel cover large parts of the linux ecosystems in terms of both foot print and relation to other distros. The first being SteamOS, as you'd expect. It will have the best direct support in our upstream paths and should largely result in compatibility/near-compatibility with the rest of the debian world. The second is Fedora, to cover the RPM side of the force.
As things progress, we may work our way out into some other test environments - but this is a good start with heavy coverage.