Announcements

Join the ongoing conversation on Discord: https://discord.gg/w6Tpkp2

Please read the current update for instructions on downloading the latest update. Players with Mac versions of the game will not be affected, but you will have a slightly longer wait for your version of the new maps. Please make a copy of your character folder before running the new update, just to make sure you don't lose any of your custom work.

It looks like we can give everyone a list of minimum specs for running City of Titans. Please keep in mind that this is 'for now' until we are able to add more graphics and other system refinements. Currently you will need :
Windows 10 or later required; no Intel integrated graphics like UHD, must have AMD or NVIDIA card or discrete chipset with 4Gb or more of VRAM
At least 16GB of main DRAM.
These stats may change as we continue to test.

To purchase your copy of the City of Titans Launcher, visit our store at https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/ A purchase of $50 or more will give you a link to download the Launcher for Windows or Mac based machines.

Travel powers

24 posts / 0 new
Last post
frackstef
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 12/11/2014 - 12:58
Travel powers

I mean, you guys are adding parkour, but I was wondering if you guys were going to change features to other travel powers, teleporting for instance. Could you make that more invasive? Like, instead of just clicking where you want to go, you'd simply go invisible to others, and have the ability to move extremely fast?

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
That would be how Champions

That would be how Champions Online does it, so it is doable. But the impression I get, based on what I read here, is that most CoX veterans prefer point-click-bamf to the high-speed invisible phasing.

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
.
Avatar courtesy of Satellite9 Irezoomie

Izzy
Izzy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 11:09
Hmmm... what CO does is Phase

Hmmm... what CO does is Phase Shift traveling?

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Yeah a power that "makes you

Yeah a power that "makes you effectively invisible to everyone and lets you move real fast to another spot" sounds more like what I'd call "phase shifting" than actual teleportation. To me teleportation is literally like using Star Trek's transporters - you instantly go from one spot directly to another spot without spending any time "moving" in-between.

I guess one question I'd have about the way CO implemented it was whether, while you're invisible, could you move in three dimensions or not? True teleportation should probably allow you to zap from the ground directly to the top of a building. If what CO provided did not let you "fly" up to the roof of a building while moving with that power then I'd highly question if that could be called true "teleportation" or not.

Regardless of all this I'd hope that eventually CoT could have both of these powers. As Foradain mentioned since CoT is a spiritual successor of CoH I would think that what it calls "teleportation" would stick more closely to CoH's version of the power. But there seems to be no reason why we couldn't also have something else like what frackstef mentioned as well. I'd probably call that type of travel "phase shifting" instead because it does sound different enough from teleportation to be called something else.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Lord Nightmare
Lord Nightmare's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 15:44
It does, Lothic. It is

It does, Lothic. It is basically Phase Flight for the duration of the power until it ends and has to be activated again.

There is a ground only version that lets you jump but not fly, although it's called "Vanish" instead of Teleport.

Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...

Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Lord Nightmare wrote:
Lord Nightmare wrote:

It does, Lothic. It is basically Phase Flight for the duration of the power until it ends and has to be activated again.
There is a ground only version that lets you jump but not fly, although it's called "Vanish" instead of Teleport.

Thanks for the info. I played CO for a couple of months back when it first launched and basically didn't remember how its version of "teleport" worked. It still sounds like it'd make more sense to call something like that "Phase Flight" or "Phase Shift" instead of true Teleportation.

Regardless I'd ultimately have no problem with having both "Teleport" and "Phase Flight" as separate travel powers in CoT. What you're calling "Vanish" basically just sounds like "Invisibility" in CoH terms so that could easily be a third stealth-oriented power in CoT. I guess the concern here is whether you can be affected by AoEs while "vanished" and/or whether you can attack while "vanished". This might even justify a fourth power: Vanish might involve dimensional phasing whereas Invisibility just involves being stealthy.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Lord Nightmare
Lord Nightmare's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 15:44
The difference between Vanish

The difference between Vanish and the actual Stealth ability is duration. Teleport and Vanish both have an 8 second duration (I THINK it goes up with ranking) and a 6ish second cooldown if you enter combat after exiting the power. Stealth itself is an unlimited duration power tied to the Night Warrior passive ability and cannot be activated in Combat, enhances certain powers, and allows use of a spike attack that doesn around 20K last I checked.

Also, all abilities marked as a "Teleport" grant you a moderate amount of stealth rating. This is mainly used to completely bypass encounters in instances and just get to the objectives.. but, as you mentioned, ALL of these abilities are affected by AoE attacks and getting hit with one forces you out of it and gets you into combat.

Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...

Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Lord Nightmare wrote:
Lord Nightmare wrote:

The difference between Vanish and the actual Stealth ability is duration. Teleport and Vanish both have an 8 second duration (I THINK it goes up with ranking) and a 6ish second cooldown if you enter combat after exiting the power. Stealth itself is an unlimited duration power tied to the Night Warrior passive ability and cannot be activated in Combat, enhances certain powers, and allows use of a spike attack that doesn around 20K last I checked.
Also, all abilities marked as a "Teleport" grant you a moderate amount of stealth rating. This is mainly used to completely bypass encounters in instances and just get to the objectives.. but, as you mentioned, ALL of these abilities are affected by AoE attacks and getting hit with one forces you out of it and gets you into combat.

Clearly there's an opportunity to have all sorts of vaguely related travel/stealth powers in CoT. No matter what terms are used to name all these various powers I think we'll be able to have a mix of "teleport" powers, "phase" powers and "stealth" powers.

Frankly to keep things simple it'll probably be easier to at least start with the various powers CoH had and go from there. But borrowing things from CO would be cool too. For instance Invisiblity in CoH strictly prevented you from attacking until you manually toggled the power off. It might make more sense if it allowed you to do one massive suprise "assassin" attack while cloaked. Then after that attack the system would automatically drop the Invisibility power with a reasonable cooldown afterwards. I'm sure things like that would be worth considering.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Lord Nightmare
Lord Nightmare's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 15:44
The Stalker version (just

The Stalker version (just called Hide) was basically that, with certain powers being heavily enhanced by being invisible and the passive ability to go right back into hidden mode after combat had ended.

Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...

Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Lord Nightmare wrote:
Lord Nightmare wrote:

The Stalker version (just called Hide) was basically that, with certain powers being heavily enhanced by being invisible and the passive ability to go right back into hidden mode after combat had ended.

Yeah the Stalker had their unique Hide power but I was thinking of more of a generalized version of that for everyone. Guess it depends if CoT plans to have an exact copy of the Stalker archetype or not.

Basically I always thought the way CoH handled the Invisibility power was a bit cumbersome. I understood the game-balancing idea of not being able to use normal attack powers while Invisible, but it always seemed weird that you couldn't do some kind of single "sneak attack" while cloaked and just have the Invisiblity power automatically drop and get locked out after that one "sneak attack" until you stopped being in "combat mode". That seems like something anyone could do, not just Stalkers.

Obviously if CoT does decide to have something like a Stalker they should be able to do a "sneak attack" much better than anyone else. Still everyone ought to have an option for it even if it's not as good as the Stalker version. Maybe the non-stalker version of it would be limited to low-level melee only attacks or some-such.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Shadow Elusive
Shadow Elusive's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/10/2013 - 09:38
We are not going to copy the

We are not going to copy the Stalker archetype. CoH had a terrible time with them: the one trick build was hard to make work. Instead, we'll fix it so any build can choose to take on increasingly stealthy traits (through an ancillary pool perhaps), and then apply some mechanics that naturally come into play when using stealth during combat. Higher damage when not aggroed by the target was one if I remember correctly.

--------------------------

Interior Map Lead and UI Designer
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

We are not going to copy the Stalker archetype. CoH had a terrible time with them: the one trick build was hard to make work. Instead, we'll fix it so any build can choose to take on increasingly stealthy traits (through an ancillary pool perhaps), and then apply some mechanics that naturally come into play when using stealth during combat. Higher damage when not aggroed by the target was one if I remember correctly.

As always thanks for the additional info. I tried a Stalker once and it was relatively fun but I can understand the "one trick pony" problem you're referring to. Either their big assassin's strike was too powerful and/or the rest of the build was too weak and it was probably hard to keep all that balanced.

Sounds like a decent plan to go with a solid stealth tertiary pool and allow any build to be geared toward "stealthiness". It was fine to have an entire archetype designed as a "one shot killing machine" but what about the idea of a "stealthy Controller" or a "stealthy Mastermind". Basically there's really no reason why any archetype couldn't also be a stealth expert and it sounds like CoT is going to let us explore that.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 19 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Shadow Elusive wrote:
We are not going to copy the Stalker archetype. CoH had a terrible time with them: the one trick build was hard to make work. Instead, we'll fix it so any build can choose to take on increasingly stealthy traits (through an ancillary pool perhaps), and then apply some mechanics that naturally come into play when using stealth during combat. Higher damage when not aggroed by the target was one if I remember correctly.

As always thanks for the additional info. I tried a Stalker once and it was relatively fun but I can understand the "one trick pony" problem you're referring to. Either their big assassin's strike was too powerful and/or the rest of the build was too weak and it was probably hard to keep all that balanced.
Sounds like a decent plan to go with a solid stealth tertiary pool and allow any build to be geared toward "stealthiness". It was fine to have an entire archetype designed as a "one shot killing machine" but what about the idea of a "stealthy Controller" or a "stealthy Mastermind". Basically there's really no reason why any archetype couldn't also be a stealth expert and it sounds like CoT is going to let us explore that.

It is one of our Enforcer mastery power trees. It provides increased critical effects when targets are unaware of you (this is a very broad application as it indicates several possiblities not just stealth). This way, a player who doesn't take any stealth powers can still use their mastery given the proper...conditions ; ).


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 19 hours ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
Back on topic, I'd advocate

Back on topic, I'd advocate for both point-click-bamf Teleport and poof-scoot-peekaboo Phased Movement as separate travel powers, with the former at launch and the latter later.

Though this gave me an odd idea: What if Phased Movement were simply built as a modifier to some of the existing travel powers, such as super speed, flight, and super jump?

Out of combat it's basically eye candy, except for the fact that you won't draw aggro going between points A and B. If you have aggro. it would break aggro and allow escape (like the old Placate and Hide) and be a huge advantage, so it needs to impose an appropriate cost or it'll be banned. Costs could be one or more of:

  • slower movement speed
  • making it interruptible
  • paying a whole skill slot for this modified form (with the regular travel power as a prerequisite power)
  • loss of some or all Momentum
  • debuffed defense and/or resist
  • higher susceptibility to status effects*

* It would be hilarious if someone tried to phase-fly away, and just as they did it they got hit with a high-knockback-and-stun attack. They'd look like they just got punched into hyperspace, and would unceremoniously phase out when they hit a wall and slid down.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Grimfox
Grimfox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/05/2014 - 10:17
Didn't they demo the teleport

Didn't they demo the teleport in the travel power demo? Along with SS CJ (that was a short jump) Fly, and Cling.

I'd also like a poof and scoot type teleport. I found regular teleport to be a little bit difficult to handle at times and only spent a little time using it heavily in IP to traverse that expanse. And that was back in the days where the end use was heavy so you'd burn out before getting all the way, and you had to take hover or fall after each jump, and we walked 3 miles in the snow to get water for breakfast, uphill, both ways! It got better later but I still found it to be one of the umm least convenient of the travel powers.

On that front I wonder if it would make sense to make the power charge up, in a manner of speaking, to better control the distance. (short hops of 100m or less would be nearly instant, long hops would take a second or two to "charge" at such time the recticle would change colors to indicate whether or not the user would make the full jump) Or change the way the camera works when teleporting long distances to give the user a better idea how far they are porting. I see flaws in both those ideas, but they are just ideas.

Or by taking teleport you are granted access to three (or more) activation types which all reference the same power stats but behave slightly differently. IE you could have microTP similar to Nightcrawlers combat teleportations from the movies, that shoots you 6 feet in a given direction. (super dodge?) A long range variant for traveling purposes. And a battlefieldTP that sits between the two. To give a more (hopefully) understandable analogy: not having to use the 12 foot extension roller to paint a narrow hall when a standard roller and a step ladder work better. Or not having to paint a 20 foot tall wall with a hand roller and step ladder. The right set of tools for the right job.

I'll stop there before I go so far out into the deep end that they start calling it lost at sea.

Izzy
Izzy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 11:09
Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

On that front I wonder if it would make sense to make the power charge up, in a manner of speaking, to better control the distance. (short hops of 100m or less would be nearly instant, long hops would take a second or two to "charge" at such time the recticle would change colors to indicate whether or not the user would make the full jump)

Interesting. Hold down the Teleport Button a little longer to travel a little farther. :}

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 19 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Charing for teleport can be

Charing for teleport can be problematic for those with latency issues trying to pin down their distance accurately. Heck latency can be problematic for teleport as is and anything we can due to make it easier suffices. And it would also slow down the nature of teleport where we hope to allow it to be a bit...faster without forced rooting (and allowing for 4 to 5 seconds of hang time sans any other power activation, along with application of other effects to mitigate retaliation free jousting).


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Izzy
Izzy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 11:09
I would be curious to see a

I would be curious to see a type of Starburst effect is possible for Long Distance Travel, if/when holding down Teleport for longer.

ex:

Plus, buildings arent an issue.. as you can go through most, and the destination looks and places you in an Open Area, even if that means Pushing your toon up, down, left, right, maybe even back.. until your toon is in the clear. Well, pushing isnt the right term, as the math check would be done before the TP commences at the other end. :]

Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 19 hours ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
Yeah, lag was a PITA for

Yeah, lag was a PITA for stock Teleport in CoX. Lots of folks felt they needed to use Hover with it because of that.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Grimfox
Grimfox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/05/2014 - 10:17
I hadn't considered latency

I hadn't considered latency in the above examples. I think the poof-scoot-poof options would be the least prone to latency issues. Thinking about that, and I know some people would Hate (with a capital H) hate this idea. But after the poof if the world went to a negative colors schemes for the scoot phase that would, for me, be awesome!

Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 19 hours ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

I hadn't considered latency in the above examples. I think the poof-scoot-poof options would be the least prone to latency issues. Thinking about that, and I know some people would Hate (with a capital H) hate this idea. But after the poof if the world went to a negative colors schemes for the scoot phase that would, for me, be awesome!

Poof-scoot-poof IMHO is sufficiently different from what people expect that it really should be its own power. Further, you have to define how the scoot works, and IMHO players should be able to choose. So it's really a phase shift crossed with a travel power.

Inverted colors can be really disorienting. We're not trying to mez the players.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 21 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Charing for teleport can be problematic for those with latency issues trying to pin down their distance accurately. Heck latency can be problematic for teleport as is and anything we can due to make it easier suffices. And it would also slow down the nature of teleport where we hope to allow it to be a bit...faster without forced rooting (and allowing for 4 to 5 seconds of hang time sans any other power activation, along with application of other effects to mitigate retaliation free jousting).

Trick question, Tannim.

Would it be possible to define a Teleport Power which applied a "null gravity" effect once the teleportation transfer was completed until the Player used a movement keybind to do a forward/backward/strafe/turn/up/down motion?

Yes, this would create an Edge Case Scenario in which people could Teleport up into the air and then "hang there like bricks don't" until they move again. Sort of a "poor man's Hover" capability, where as long as you don't MOVE, gravity will "ignore" the PC until the Player is ready to "do something" involving movement (so as to "smooth out" any latency/lag issues). As soon as a movement keybind is used, the "null gravity" effect is cancelled and the Usual Rules™ reassert themselves.

I'm suggesting this because the "4 to 5 seconds of free Hover" was something that always irked me in City of Heroes, even though I fully understood its necessity and purpose. The "Hover" clone interpretation meant that after Teleporting you were substantially "immobilized" for 4 seconds before you could move around again. There was no "early out" from the Hover effect if you needed to move in a hurry. If you had a fast internet connection with extremely low latency, you were "stuck" waiting for the Hover time to elapse before getting going.

Now ... if you rig things under the hood to function as a "null gravity" until cancelled by use of movement keybinds after Teleporting, you can do two things.

1. You can make the effect "fragile" such that any Damage output or Damage input will also cancel the "null gravity" effect.
2. You can still put a 5 seconds duration timer on the effect, but can now expire that timer early on Player command (by using movement keybinds).

I'm sure there are going to be some other Edge Cases where a "null gravity" effect wouldn't suffice or help (enough) due to other environmental factors ... but that's a problem for another day.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 19 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
Charing for teleport can be problematic for those with latency issues trying to pin down their distance accurately. Heck latency can be problematic for teleport as is and anything we can due to make it easier suffices. And it would also slow down the nature of teleport where we hope to allow it to be a bit...faster without forced rooting (and allowing for 4 to 5 seconds of hang time sans any other power activation, along with application of other effects to mitigate retaliation free jousting).

Trick question, Tannim.
Would it be possible to define a Teleport Power which applied a "null gravity" effect once the teleportation transfer was completed until the Player used a movement keybind to do a forward/backward/strafe/turn/up/down motion?
Yes, this would create an Edge Case Scenario in which people could Teleport up into the air and then "hang there like bricks don't" until they move again. Sort of a "poor man's Hover" capability, where as long as you don't MOVE, gravity will "ignore" the PC until the Player is ready to "do something" involving movement (so as to "smooth out" any latency/lag issues). As soon as a movement keybind is used, the "null gravity" effect is cancelled and the Usual Rules™ reassert themselves.
I'm suggesting this because the "4 to 5 seconds of free Hover" was something that always irked me in City of Heroes, even though I fully understood its necessity and purpose. The "Hover" clone interpretation meant that after Teleporting you were substantially "immobilized" for 4 seconds before you could move around again. There was no "early out" from the Hover effect if you needed to move in a hurry. If you had a fast internet connection with extremely low latency, you were "stuck" waiting for the Hover time to elapse before getting going.
Now ... if you rig things under the hood to function as a "null gravity" until cancelled by use of movement keybinds after Teleporting, you can do two things.
1. You can make the effect "fragile" such that any Damage output or Damage input will also cancel the "null gravity" effect.
2. You can still put a 5 seconds duration timer on the effect, but can now expire that timer early on Player command (by using movement keybinds).
I'm sure there are going to be some other Edge Cases where a "null gravity" effect wouldn't suffice or help (enough) due to other environmental factors ... but that's a problem for another day.

I summarized what you've stated in detail in the original quote. That's the intent I would like to test out (among some other things).

The old teleport had a couple of aspects coded into it that caused the issues you mentioned. There was a delay post activation (most likely to allow for animation to play out) which of course, caused a brief (just over a second) pause in continually teleporting. We want to get rid of that as much as possible to make continual teleporting more smooth.

Then there was flight granted for 4 seconds but all the actual movment (speed, control of movement and friction) were all completely nullified, which of course we want to duplicate. Appear at new locatoin, hover in place, choose next location...go.

But then what we can do, is use what we calll conditional triggers in our power designer to have the rooted-hover cancelled due to any inputs, that is any power activation on the user, any movement key of the user (directional / jump, etc..) and any received input such as being attacked by any type of attack, not limited to health damage attacks, heck even being attacked and missed can be used. Of course there are aspects of this we will need to test just how far we will take it.

And since we're allowing for more general movement during combat (certain powers won't cause forced rooting for example) we also have to use mechanics to minimize retaliation-free jousting. There are several we will be exploring in this area each in differing combinations to see which works best.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 21 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Good to know. +thumbs up

Good to know.

+thumbs up


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.