I'm gonna start this with the assumption that the basic plan for respawning is similar to City of Heroes, or most MMOs in general. That is, when your character is KO'd, you get a prompt that you can press a button on that will teleport you to a safe spot, either in the same instance, or in the outside world, where your character will be healed and ready to play again. Because, well... this is a very proven formula that just works. Some have a cost associated with them, some don't and that's a huge topic in itself. But not the one I'm looking for here. I'm looking at edge cases in respawning, where respawning may actually hurt a player more than it helps.
As an example, you're on a team that sets your level 20 levels higher and you do some missions with them. The team disbands and you're suddenly in a very level inappropriate area and should you get the attention of anything, you're going to get beaten rather quickly. And if that happens... where do you respawn? In City of Heroes, the answer was "In the same zone". And sometimes adding "Far away from an exit" to that. Similarly, in PVP, when you were defeated, you had to respawn in the PVP zone, where the hospital might be besieged by the enemy team, leading to a death-resapwn-death loop.
These are edge cases, yes, and the bases did help by allowing you to respawn there instead, but for most of the early time of CoH, you could end in situations where the only way out was to beg in Broadcast to get teleported to an exit of some kind. And that is a design failure. I mean, good-ish for a little community spirit, but letting a player end up in a situation like that is a poor showing.
As such, I'd like to suggest a few ways to lessen the chance of this happening:
[b]Allow players to choose a level appropriate area to respawn in[/b]
Maybe have some hospital hubs of sorts that you can teleport to on defeat once you've passed a level threshold, no matter where you get defeated. Even if you got defeated by laser dinosaurs on the moon in the far future of a parallel dimension.
[b]Place in-zone hospitals near an exit[/b]
Preferably without an enemy spawn point between it and the exit. This is perhaps redundant if the first is done.
[b]Always have a PVE respawn point available while in PVP areas[/b]
To insure that there's always a way out when a player decides that they've had enough PVP for the moment. Don't let others block someone from leaving.
[b]Have common stores near respawn points[/b]
If you can buy basic stuff that will give you an advantage in the fight you just lost, this is an excellent place to sell those. I mean, when else will a player be more interested in a little boost... or 20?
Being defeated is annoying. Getting back up shouldn't be. Or at least shouldn't be more annoying that intended.
I think the standard action should be to respawn as close to the action as possible. SW:TOR has an option to respawns at the battlefield, but this is limited by increasing waiting periods before it can activate again (as a zerging deterrent). It also has a limited number daily uses for non-subscribers but I'm not sure if that is the right direction to take.
If you don't want to respawn in place you have the choice to return to the nearest medcenter. Still reasonably close to the action, but now better positioned to either give up entirely or reset the encounter for attempting a different tactic.
Most games gravitate towards making travel trivially easy, even if they did not start out that way (e.g. SW:TOR now added the ability to instantly travel to just about any camp on a the map that you previously visited).
I understand why this happens and how it improves the experience for casual players, but I am not personally convinced this is the best direction to develop a game in. Like automated group finders, instant and cost free travel damages something in a game as well. It turns the game in a series of mission hubs and the terrain in between as irrelevant. It also makes the sense of visiting an expansive world disappear. It gamifies the game, so to speak, and I don't think MMOs are better off for it.
If travelling to a zone costs a real time hour then the down side is that few players will make the effort to do so, but those that do are not going to leave on a whim either. It creates a sense of being bound to a zone while you are there that doesn't develop if you can hop from zone to zone in seconds. The early experiences in King's Row and in particular Steel Canyon in CoH really had you slowly grow into the place, making it real to the player. Even the split in green and yellow line helped with this, as being able to reach the first station of the second line was an achievement, and a watershed moment for the growth of a character. The faster travel becomes, the more the game will cease to be a world and instead turn into the kind of 'lobby' oriented gameplay that plague certain popular games, where players gather in hubs, select a destination with either a fixed or pick up group and jump right into the action as easy as getting through a portal.
But there is a price to be paid for making travel more dangerous and involved. Travel itself is not generally seen as fun or engaging, so players tend to get annoyed at having to travel long distances. The many complaints about CoH's 'distant zone mission doors' are testament for that. It also means that in a way you are fragmenting the player base, which is not generally something you want to do in a game.
Still, I think it would be a good idea to keep the low and low-mid levels hassle free as far as travel is involved, but after that gradually ramp up the difficulty of visiting zones and mission areas. But at the same time to make sure that the process of travel itself is engaging rather than tedious, by treating it as any other mission in the game (that is, give it the proper engagement curve and alternative ways, even within the travel itself, to deal with the obstacles. Put in opponents that a single player has to (and can) sneak around, but that a group just might be able to tackle. Create obstacles that make it impossible for a single action to be repeated for minutes on end (everybody hated hover put-putting across King's Row). Instead put an aerial dodge fight or giant birds in the way of fliers, oil slicks and blind corners and traps for speedsters and overhangs and blind corner spots for jumpers to make them pause and reconsider how to approach the next leg of their journey. Put in encounters for players to get sidetracked by, like running into a group of heroes fighting a pitched battle against some horde of whatever overpowered enemies the travel zone has to offer, so that the players can actually make the difference in getting their npc collegues out of their bind while the players are still underpowered for the zone and shouldn't be able to survive without that high powered help. Makes players feel heroic and it is an interesting encounter to work your way through intelligently. There's all kinds of ways to break up the monotony of long distance travel. So what if it takes two realtime hours of travel time to reach 'Forward base Awesome Zone', when the travel is planned out as an elaborate high level dungeon crawl?
* * *
For the problem of finding yourself out of level range for you character, that is not entirely a game problem as well as a player one. Going with a group into level inappropriate zones and then being abandoned there is not what the game does to the player. It also shouldn't be all that common.
However, a relatively simple solution would be that the character retains the sidekick level of the lowest recommended level for the zone until they leave (or until a timer runs out that allows sufficient time to leave the zone perhaps).
Another solution would be to allow players trapped in high level zones to call for an emergency evac. Could even be presented graphically as an army heli arriving, commando's dramatically dropping down to set up a defensive perimeter, getting strapped into an harness and hauled up into the air. Mechanically the player would accrue the same penalty as a death, but it wouldn't be called that of course. After all, your character didn't die, it just cost the city a lot of money to deploy that rescue operation.
Simplest solution I can think of would be a [b]Go To Hospital[/b] "tree" of options.
Going to the "nearest" hospital is the cheapest option (possibly even "free" in IGC terms).
Going to hospitals other than the "nearest" one will have increasing costs depending on how far away they are. The "cost" for using this option should including not only deducting character resources (such as IGC) but also involve a delay countdown (which gets longer the farther you're going) so as to prevent using self-destruct as a backdoor shortcut to long distance travel.
This "tree" of options would only include Hospitals that your character has actually visited (Badge opportunity for unlock?) so as to "prove" that you have the permission to go there.
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Of course, that never stopped me from taking my level 20+(ish) Spy into level 40+ zones whilst doing a power level grind (and with the Tabula Rasa XP multiplier token, you could hit level 50 in an *Hour* if you set up properly).
One thing that Red has alluded to is the "unlocking" of suitable ressurection way points, and *generally* speaking, they should have ideally a method of quick travel linked to them (either a Zone exit/taxi service facility).
Sure, there are dead points like that in WoW and many other games, but they also have a singular "get me back home" power that is on a (relatively) long cooldown ie the hearthstone which most people set to StormWind/Orgrimmar/Their home hub of choice
So this is something that helps with those "oh crap I am in totally the wrong place" situations.
Hell, CoX had those with Oroborus/SG/Pocket D travel powers...
The only problem then comes when you take a very low level character, who has not unlocked these abilities into a very high level zone.. so when the player unlocks these is more of the "what to do when" situation.
I'll agree with the tree of respawn options up to a point, yes. It is probably the simpler version of giving stuck players an out. Do it like the Tailor missions in CoH and get a hospital contact at certain levels. Do something simple for them and you have a new permanent respawn point.
But I do think the first far respawn should be free. I mean if you can't afford it, is it disabled then? That's a bad plan for what's intended as an emergency option. Now, if you need it again within, say, an hour or two, you've entered the realm of self-inflicted trouble, and should probably pay a fee scaling with level to use it. I could agree on that. Help players in trouble, but prevent (or at lest dissuade) the use of respawning as a travel power. People will likely do that no matter what, though. But it will drain some IGC from the game if they over-do it.
City of Heroes did later add all kinds of personal teleporter powers. Pocket D, Base Teleporter, Market Teleporter, Ouroborus Portal and so on which do fit as solutions to the same problem, as long as you have them. An Emergency Evac power could be used in the same manner. Maybe give it a forced location like back in the starting area.
Slight derail--more of a tangent, really--but CoH was my first MMORPG, and, after it was shut down, I was (prepare for melodrama) shocked, dismayed, and appalled the first that I was locked out of a group mission for dying. Please no.
I am not a ragequit kind of person. I have never ragequit anything. But that was the closest I ever came. I think I shouted out loud "Really? Time out? You've got to be kidding me!"
Now, the CoH 5th Column/Council thing where you were defeated and put in a prison cell and had to bust out and fight or stealth your way back to the fight? Genius. Heroic, active, and fun.
But respawning to sit helplessly and bored in time out? Please, please no. I won't ragequit or anything, but please, for the love of Mike, no.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I'd advocate in favor of a position in which if there is going to be any sort of "Emergency Evacuation" Power like you're describing, it goes to only one of two places ...
Starter Hospital, Titan City North (if you're north of the river)
Starter Hospital, Titan City South (if you're south of the river)
Why? Lowest common denominator logic. The "starter zone" hospital is going to be about as safe as it gets for everyone of any Level range. So if you're REALLY that hard up to get out of where you are ... [b]Go Back To Square One[/b] and start over. Put it on a 1 hour Recharge so it doesn't get overused and is really an "emergency" backup option (as opposed to a Get Out Of Jail Free card).
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The plan is for standard pie play, being defeated provides the option for an emergency evacuation which automatically respawns at the nearest hospital. If a player has a base with a medical station, they can choose their base as an evacuation point. There is no cost associated with this, simply due to ease of play for those with no or low funds not getting stuck waiting for a rez. There may be a cost for immediate return to mission entrance, this is something that has to be evaluated. Base returns may have costs associated with use as well, this is something we will need to evaluate.
There may be missions where capture or arrest occurs. Along with this is the possibility of bribery or payment of fines which acts as a way of getting out / returning to action sooner.
There are no time outs. Being defeated at this moment is considered penalty in of itself. There may be other penalties associated with defeat which cannot be disclosed at this time.
Yes pvp will need a way of exiting that prevents the possibility of other player preventing exits. Being defeated and going to a hospital can have a quite simple solution; respawns the pvp hospital and when exiting choosing either the pve or pvp map.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
This was the Secret World I am guessing>
If so then, yes, the being put in a time out box was annoying, but it also served a purpose and was put in quite deliberately.
The option to view the battle from a bird's perspective allowed the players to study the encounter mechanics and learn which weapons (powers) worked and which didn't. The game intentionally set up its dungeons so that no single set of skills could get a group through the entirety of it. The whole point was to learn the attacks, its tells and its counters.
First time I saw something like this? Champions Online. I thought it was a bug. Then I found other missions where that happened, also in CO, and then in Neverwinter. I am quite pleased to hear that it is not planned for CoT. ^_^
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I don't know about Champions Online, so I have no idea at all if it was a sensible or ridiculous game design decision there. sorry
Nah, it was Champions and then DCUO where I ran into this and would have pulled my hair out if I didn't shave my head :P. Oddly, I did play a little TSW and never ran into the mechanic, but I mostly soloed and never got past Blue Mountain, so that may be why.
TSW is a genius game in it's own way. I have tons of respect for the game, but I just never could get all the way into it. Too bad for me, the atmosphere and storytelling are unparalleled.
Do you mean you could still just power-bust out, but also you could pay bribery or fines as an alternative for those that want/need to use noncombat skills/resources? If so that sounds amazingly awesome!
If it's bribery/fines instead of the option of just busting out, that's a little less awesome. I loved busting out and fighting back to the group. Felt heroic.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
This might need its own thread but the discussion got me thinking... Since we won't have discreet zones will teleport powers like recall friend work across the entire "world" or will there be a range limit. Assuming, of course, we will even have that ability.
"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."
I hope we do get Recall Friend or similar in the game. When looking at the social impact of mechanics, this power had some of the credit of how helpful the CoH community in general was. Low cost, full zone ranged teleport ally. There were entire supergroups based around this one power. People who would patrol hazard zones and pull newbies out of trouble. "Paragon City Search and Rescue" or something like that.
It was, until personal teleporters became common, CoH's solution to the "newbie stuck in high level area" problem. And it did work, somewhat, but I am not entirely sure if a design issue should have to lean on a social solution.
But yes, a new thread on the merits of Recall Friend would be nice. It's somewhat related to the issue here, but could use its own discussion.
If there are captures on defeat in a mission, yes there should be the fight your way out or pay your way out as an option. Nothing is concrete so dar as that is concerned. Though there may be scenarios where there isn't a bribe / fine that cn be paid and the only option is to bust your way out as well. But I would never recommend a pay up only option inless there was a timer involved. And to be honest no one internally has supported a time out option.
To thise who desire TP Friend, Team Teleport, and the like, there is a good chance to see their equivalent in this game.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Can I haz a way to Craft a Vet only Med hover disk that takes 2 hours to recharge after usage? So for difficult TFs, Raids, etc.., we can use them like we did Team Recall, but for Defeated players. :)
See, that is well and truly awesome.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Here's a thought.
If a building has more than one Mission Door to enter it through ... might other locations such as Auction Houses and Hospitals have more than one way to enter/egress from them as well?
Wentworths had open gates on its loading dock in the back, so you didn't have to enter through the front. But Hospitals uniformly had only 1 door in or out.
Imagine leaving a Hospital via the "steam tunnels" underground, or by the roof (to access the helicopter pad?).
If there's a single choke point for entering or exiting a critical service area, it makes it really easy to "camp" that one location and pick off hostile Foes (ala PvP Zone unfriendliness).
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This shouldn't be an issue for the PVE zones, but for PVP I would suggest it be included. I did my fair share of griefing toons by putting them in the hospital at Siren's Call and then teleporting them to an alley or ledge as they left the hospital to enter the zone and assassinating them. Having a separate egress point would have fixed that exploit immediately.
Well, if you're going to do it for PvP ... why not also do it for PvE? If you're already doing the work for one, why not duplicate the results for the other? More bang per buck that way.
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guess there's no reason not to, but it's likely to be just walking out of the building from a different direction or coming out a block away from a manhole cover or something. won't have an impact in pve beyond a slight bit of amusement the first couple times it's used by the player. no real reason not to, just not much of a reason to do it either.