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A new way to Revive?

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deltaE93
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A new way to Revive?

First let my apologize, I may ramble and it may be long winded, but please stick with me dear friends!

Something that came to my mind today, was death in video games. (as it so often does for all of us right?) At some point, your character will be defeated. There isn't really a way around it. But given the nature of the game, that can't be the "End" of the character. It's not a rogue-like, there isn't "Perma-death, start over" gameplay. It can't be the singleplayer, "You Died. Reload, Retry" solution either. So we turn to what most MMOs do, "wait for Revive, or Respawn."

So then we ask, how do we handle it? So I was thinking about what other MMOs do, and what comic books do, and other aspects of gameplay that I enjoy. (my mind loves to run in every direction at once) When all at once my 3 Trains of thought had a wonderful collision.

I enjoy summons, pets, companions, whatever you care to call them. Seem's random to say, but it was what sparked my idea.

Superheroes often have sidekicks, (or underlings for all the villians out there!) and they have been known to help the hero out from time to time.

World of Warcraft has a system where you can be revived by another player, or you can become a ghost at the nearest "Graveyard," wander back to your body, and Revive yourself.

So my Frankenstein's monster of an idea is this. If player dies, they can either wait where they are for another player to revive them, or take control of a "sidekick" and travel back to their Hero's body to revive them. Even better, if these "Sidekicks" were a companion or pet style of NPC, they would already have a few Combat and Utility powers that the player could use to fight back to their body.

I could chat more about Pet/Companion systems, but really I just wanted to get this idea out there and get the feedback from all of you, be you a developer or just a forum browser like myself. I felt it was the best combination of the genres I could think of that was more interesting than, "you ended up at hospital!"

islandtrevor72
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Its an interesting idea.

Its an interesting idea.
Do you have any thoughts about revive consumables, revive powers, characters who thematically do not have underlings or most importantly instanced difficulty where a team can just revive without needing to prepare for defeats?

Tannim222
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While an interesting idea,

While an interesting idea, islandtrevor72 has it right regarding characters who may not have any sidekicks / underlings. Along with the additional burden of handling transitions of the player controller from one pawn etity to another pawn entity and back again (not that it can't be done), and then the issues of instanced content, phased content, or even instanced copies of maps due to map size population limits and getting this second player controlled pawn into the same instance as the original character.

Additional systems would need to be made for certain with regards to instanced content and max team limits to handle the issue of adding the same player but using a different controlled pawn. As such, this is most likely something we would have to look into later down the line

Other questions to consider: what level would this sidekick character be? How would it be determined? What happens if the sidekick is defeated on the way to revive the other character? What happens if the sidekick is defeated while attempting to revive the other character? What limits are there on on the sidekick's ability to revive? Why do all such sidekicks must have a revive ability (does this fit with all sidekick themes?)

A possible alternative simpler solution would be to make this a skin of a temporary revive power. The player clicks the revive and a player designed temp npc is summoned whose function would be to revive the fallen character.

Another possible alternative and one that is a bit more involved, would be to have one or more factions within the game that provide the service of aiding those who fall in battle. The player would pay a fee for a certain number of revives. Once fallen, the player clicks the temp power and the NPC arrives to revive them. This could also fall in line with another player idea posted about having temporary sidekicks within the game for hire. These could be combantant npcs that player characters pay a fee for in the game, rather like a heroes-for-hire / mercenaries faction. Both would serve as a resource sink into the game and avoid the issues I posted above.

For reference here are the current possible ways to revive we are looking to use:
Player expends stored Reserves on their character
Player uses a power to revive the character (if they have it, could be part of a build or temporary)
Player receives a revive from another player who expends their own reserves in assisting the defeated player
Player receives a revive from another player who uses a power (if they have it, could be part of a build or temporary)
Player uses a medical evac to a medical station within the instanced map
Player uses a medical evac to a medical center within the city (with resource sink to have an instant return to the combat location)
Player uses a medical evac to their base (if they have a base with appropriate set up such as med station / evac systems)
Player was captured and either must escape or pay a bribe to get away (depending on the type of content)

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Izzy
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As long as After choosing one

As long as After choosing one of the options a standard issue Titan City MediVac Drone fly's in / fades in, and it shines a teleport / revive / etc... beam on your corpse. ;D

umm.. drome came since the heartbeat monitor wasn't picking up anything!?!? :P

[img]http://media.graytvinc.com/images/Drones16.jpg[/img]

deltaE93
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Hello everyone, thanks for

Hello everyone, thanks for the thoughts. I'm glad you all found it interesting, that was my hope after all! Sorry it's taken this long to get back to you.

And I guess the first major question is. "What about players without pets?"

I'd say it's definitely the first issue with my idea. And there are 2 routes that immediately come to my mind. I don't really favor one over the other either, so I'm not suggesting one over the other.

The first is a route similar to what Star Wars: The Old Republic did. For those without experience with the game, it gave every class a companion. I feel this could work within CoT given the genre. Most heroes had a sidekick at one time or another, no matter what their powers.

The other is what I feel is the route more in line with what I understand of the game and it's power sets. And that is that everyone could use it, but only summoning classes can keep their pets with them.

And as Tannim pointed out, death is about more than just being defeated. It's a potential economy sink, which is generally a good thing. And your point of Heroes for Hire fits into this rather wonderfully I think. An example item, say a Comm Device, is used to call for a revive could be a nice "consume on use item" way to go about it. And since certain factions "run" certain districts, you could offer a Faction specific Comm Device, but limit the use to the districts they are found in. Cheaper than an all areas revive, but more limited in scope.

And perhaps a chance to die and fail a trade off for being revived in the field, saving you the time to get back where you were from the closest hospital? Though I suspect travel powers make such trades hard to judge.

I think what I'm most looking for out of this idea and it's discussion is to get a player involved even after their death. It gives people looking for the RP experience a chance for a more stories they can tell, and the people looking for the game play a chance to keep in the action as long as possible.

Tannim222
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deltaE93The other is what I
deltaE93 wrote:

The other is what I feel is the route more in line with what I understand of the game and it's power sets. And that is that everyone could use it, but only summoning classes can keep their pets with them.

We will not be designing the game with the expectation every character has a companion or sidekick. In particular, we feel that sidekicking is best reserved for players teaming with other players regardless of level. Allow players to determine if they want to create characters for one another that are sidekicks for each other in their story.

Another possiblity here is that we may be able to provide a Tertiary Power set that summons NPC pets (based on versions of our Pet classifications primary power sets). One thing we will be looking into when designing these sets is to have anywhere from 1 pet to a lot of pets. A player that wants to have their own steady companion(s) could choose an appropriate Tertiary set for this. With the level of customization we will provide, most themes should be possible, reducing the possiblity of having a pet that doesn't "fit" with a player's concept.

deltaE93 wrote:

I think what I'm most looking for out of this idea and it's discussion is to get a player involved even after their death. It gives people looking for the RP experience a chance for a more stories they can tell, and the people looking for the game play a chance to keep in the action as long as possible.

Given the number of methods we already plan to employ to revive in the game, most revolve around expediency to return to action. Some even involve action on the players part, such as being captured. Even something that could potentially take the longest - going to a hospital or base can be minimized by travel powers, or with a currency fee (at the hopstial) or resource cost (base) to teleport back to the location of extraction. This leaves very little down time in which to there is a serious need to eliminate it and provide something to fill the void.

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deltaE93
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That's what I thought. And I

That's what I thought. And I look forward to when I get the chance to hear about "pet" systems and powers more in depth. Have they been developed/concepted yet? I assume powers development is one most open to discussion.

And thanks for all the discussion and at least entertaining the idea. The fact that nothing is really considered "Off the table" when it comes to the suggestions of the fans and supporters is awesome.

Tannim222
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We've done all the pre

We've done all the pre-production for power designs and are in our prodiction phase of implementing our power design systems into our prototype. Pet power designs have their concepts, but pet behavioral systems are AI depedent and we have some...different AI design models being explored. Which means a lot of testing to see if we can do want we want to do. It Is one of the reasons why our pet classification was put so high on our KS stretch goals.

Player pets csn be a tricky and even typical AI can end up with unintended behaviors depending on how many different things you want the AI to do, and we have potentially, a whole lot of different things that pets will do. We intend to take our time with them. This is why even the control set pets won't be in at launch and will show up after we unlock the post level 30 portion of the game. Once we have enough data from these pets we can use it to move on to the more complicated pets for our summons sets.

Keep posting ideas, we're always listening. Just be aware that we've been at this for over a couple of years now. There are a lot of old threads covering a wide range of topics on these forums. You can use the search feature and look up threads that may cover topics you with to learn / talk more about.

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Izzy
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Tannim222 wrote: >Given the
Tannim222 wrote:

>Given the number of methods we already plan to employ to revive in the game, most revolve around expediency to return to action. Some even involve action on the players part, such as being captured. Even something that could potentially take the longest - going to a hospital or base can be minimized by travel powers, or with a currency fee (at the hospital) or resource cost (base) to teleport back to the location of extraction. This leaves very little down time in which to there is a serious need to eliminate it and provide something to fill the void.

Were using Transport instead of Teleport?
hehe... does that mean we can take a Cab or Bus or this or that... back to the Mission Entrance? ;)
And after 3 seconds screen fades to black... and after a seconds, fades back.. as the Cab or Bus or this or that stops right in front of the mission entrance? :)

Side note:
I rather this not be a Default, but Earnable feature, like the Crafting Table was in CoH. (Except it only takes 2 to 3 days of effort to Create/Get). And a player that has an EMT Device setup can drop one outside the Mission Entrance. So, you can fast track to it, If you're outside of a Mission Instance, in the Open World. Of course, Raids might Heavily DEPEND on the EMT Device... and most of the strategies will incorporate players that have it. Still, Not NECESSARY to have it, just APPRECIATED if they do. ;)

EMT (Emergency Medical Transport) Device Should Stay as a Earnable Reward, in my opinion. ;D

YES! Heroes have to take cabs Sometimes (we can't All Fly), So Cabbies are Required to have Emergency Lights/Sirens when blowing through Traffic Lights. :/

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"Taxi!" Power is something I

"Taxi!" Power is something I've discussed a lot. Also 'Titan City Taxi Cabs' (TCTC) as a Faction group, one can earn privileges and services from. **Alternately, 'Titan City Taxi Company' or 'City Cab Company' (CCC).

And, rather than fading to black, I see the Taxi as resolving to a Camera view, which plots a least-time route between pick-up and drop-off points and 'drives' it. Regular Taxis will also route to avoid major disturbances, like large super-powered street battles and other disasters. 'Turbo' Taxis fly above the streets, so they will route through rougher areas and most 'disturbance zones'. 'Hard Core' Taxis will drive right through Zone Events and take short-cuts over rough terrain, to get you to your destination ASAP.

Doesn't that sound like fun?

Be Well!
Fireheart

Izzy
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Fireheart wrote: "Taxi!"
Fireheart wrote:

"Taxi!" Power is something I've discussed a lot. Also 'Titan City Taxi Cabs' (TCTC) as a Faction group, one can earn privileges and services from. **Alternately, 'Titan City Taxi Company' or 'City Cab Company' (CCC).And, rather than fading to black, I see the Taxi as resolving to a Camera view, which plots a least-time route between pick-up and drop-off points and 'drives' it. Regular Taxis will also route to avoid major disturbances, like large super-powered street battles and other disasters. 'Turbo' Taxis fly above the streets, so they will route through rougher areas and most 'disturbance zones'. 'Hard Core' Taxis will drive right through Zone Events and take short-cuts over rough terrain, to get you to your destination ASAP.Doesn't that sound like fun?Be Well!
Fireheart

As a compromise, before it fades to black in 3 seconds... it could show a countdown somewhere... and if you Don't press any key/mouse button in those 3 seconds, it fades to black....
...otherwise if you Do press a key, You aren't transported immediately, but are taken the long way... looking at the Scenery,, and if you press Escape, it fades to Black and you're transported to the Destination, resuming what it would have initially have done. :)

Interdictor
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Tannim222 wrote: Player pets
Tannim222 wrote:

Player pets csn be a tricky and even typical AI can end up with unintended behaviors depending on how many different things you want the AI to do, and we have potentially, a whole lot of different things that pets will do. We intend to take our time with them. This is why even the control set pets won't be in at launch and will show up after we unlock the post level 30 portion of the game. Once we have enough data from these pets we can use it to move on to the more complicated pets for our summons sets.

Sounds like a wise plan! I was never a big Mastermind fan in CoH - I only had one or two, neither of which reached 50, but I always appreciated my Controller pets (and even the quasi-pet powers like Lightning Storm, Tornado, and the post-patch Photon Seekers).

And I'm very intrigued on just what you want pets to be able to do in this game (besides dishing and tanking damage?) - looking forward to more future updates.

deltaE93
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You and me both. I'm really

You and me both. I'm really looking forward to seeing the additional plans for pets, and all power sets.

I'm also happy to see that there is already thoughts going into post-launch content. Shows they're not just concerned with launching the game, but sustaining it.