This has been brought up before but I think at this point its becoming more important a topic due to the advancement of the games development.
My view is that mini-games are a necessity in todays gaming landscape.
Most games now include alternate activities and a superhero game would offer MANY opportunities to include some.
Things like :
Horde mode, sports, race tracks, romance opportunities, pet husbandry, danger rooms, strength/skill tests, ect ect ect all could fit well in a superhero genre.
Without specifically suggesting mini games (use the other thread or start a new one for those) AND understanding that many are unlikely to be included at release what do people think about mini games?
Urgh, I'm sorry, but I'd be happy to play a game that did not have this 'feature'. You can leave out the 'jumping puzzles' too.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I always view them as "optional extra's".
Something extra that is layered on top of the main game, and something which provides an alternative to "go. hunt. kill skulls".
As you said at the start, basically alternate activities. Not essential for you to do to progress through the game. People have complained about the Wildstar challenges, and I can see their reasoning for it (basically removing you from doing YOUR content, because they thought that it was a "one time only" deal). But you can also *ignore* completing them as well... sure, you will miss out on some bonus material *at that point in time*, but you can *always* come back to them later on and do them at your own pace (and still get the same rewards).
Stuff like this also helps when you are just playing around, not really doing anything, but going from A to B. It also adds something extra to the monotony of street sweeping.. seeing how fast you can do X activity (if you are competitive against yourself... dammit, I have to work out how I could get the Thayd sprint down to 22 seconds remaining for gold)
I'm neither for or against the idea but I certainly wouldn't want it to take away any resources from the primary game development.
People will usually find their own ways to amuse themselves when they get bored without having them hard-wired into the game.
"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."
Mini games can add a lot to the main game depending on how they are implemented. This should not detract from development of the main game, of course, but if the devs come up with something world- and genre-relevant then by all means add them.
+1 to Interdictor
Mini games in a vacuum--I'm neutral personally, but for it if it helps the success of the game.
Mini games in context--I think the mini games in DCUO are annoyingly awful and disconnected from the world and the lore, and the Mini games in TSW are a mixed bag. A few are absolutely genius, most are just ok, and many are agonizingly annoying.
The ones that were best in TSW were tied in to and educational about lore, mildly challenging but not heinous, and told a well-crafted story in the form of a genuinely fun Mini game.
So, over all, I'd go for very careful, selective use of Mini games, making sure that they fit into and enhance the world lore and are well designed to be fun in actual play.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Why? Just jranger'ing adds pretty much nothing to the conversation.
As I said...at this point in development any mini games are unlikely to be included at launch that are not already being designed.
As for people making their own fun.....that's true....but its equally true...actually strike that....it is much more influential to a games longevity to include alternate activities. Player retention is difficult to hold and things like mini games go a long way to keeping people playing the game.
So you suggest the inclusion of mini games that only re-enforce the overall story?
I honestly don't remember any mini games in TSW.... I quit in the first month of release because the game had zero replay value. Once you get one character maxed there was no reason to start another (besides 3 alternate missions and some costume changes). What mini games are you talking about?
I couldn't stay with TSW either, which is sad because I really respect what they were trying to do and many of the things that they accomplished. I did get to mid "levels", though.
It's been a while so I'd have to go back and refresh my memory as to the specific games. Some were integrated into missions as puzzles or "agility" games, and some were for achievement badges like the Dacian Span speed feat.
Mmmm, not as concerned with the games re-enforcing the overall story as just not feeling out of place or disconnected from the world. Though I guess those things go hand in hand to some extent.
Maybe Mini games are supposed to feel separate from the larger game proper, but I like it better when they feel more connected an integral. Ymmv.
But, as someone who isn't a huge Mini game fan, maybe I'm not the best person to speak to this anyway :P.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I'm not necessarily against the idea of adding relevant "mini-games" to CoT over the long run, but I could easily do without anything like that at launch. As you said we should let the CoT Devs concentrate on getting the "main game" done before they waste too much time on tangential stuff.
For what it's worth I'm surprised no one's really mentioned the idea of badge collecting in the context of a mini-game for CoT. I probably spent hundreds of extra hours collecting badges for my main characters in CoH which kept me interested in the game during times in-between Issue updates when I might have decided to play other games.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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Would something like the Fires in Steel Canyons count as a "minigame"? The Troll Rave?
I ask this, because they were not *intergral* to the game, those were extra's (with a badge to boot!). And yes, they did make sense (in terms of lore) for the game as well.
The path stuff in Wildstar could be viewed as "minigames" (Soldiers have the "hold out" style of minigame available for them, Explorer has the "jumping puzzle" style. Settler and Scientist don't have "minigames" specifically.
They are not "core" to the game, but they do add something. I always enjoy the "get given a weapon and blow crap up" style of extra in Wildstar. It fits with the lore, and with the path as well.
But this all depends on the point of view you take. Some people view them as needlessly added in adding in no new content. Other people love it as it gives them something new to experience when they go through the game again.
So it is all swings and roundabouts.
Side note: Some people would view the badge collecting as a "minigame" all in itself (especially if you don't have vertical travel powers) which meant that some exploration badges were almost impossible to collect solo....
Edit: Before I forget: If you don't like minigames, did you ever do the Ski chalet? Because that is a mini game if I ever saw one.
I would be fine calling the raves and fires minigames, and, if so, they are connected to the world and lore in exactly the way I like--in the world and part of it, but outside and different from the standard "mission" or street sweeping play.
Haven't played Wildstar, but, from what you've said, those sound good too. Consistent with the lore and feel of the game. I may have worded what I said in my previous post too strongly.
I didn't like most of the "races" in DCUO and Champions. Especially the ones that were just "races" with no reason other than a time or score. Racing to save the city is cool. Just racing for a score is less interesting to me.
I guess the other question becomes what is and isn't a Minigame. Right now it seems like "I know it when I see it" is the closest thing we have to a definition. Would "any built-in play outside of the dominant gameplay modes of the game" be too broad or vague?
But, as far as all of the things that you mentioned above, I think those all are the kind of games I'd favor.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
TSW felt very much like a single player game rammed into a MMO mold to me....
I got to the end game and managed to max out a character in a month. TSW was a puzzle game with some action and much of what you are thinking of as mini games are actually part of the core game. Unless they added new content after that month (in terms of mini-games) there was no real mini games.
Mini games should fit the genre to be sure but they can (and probably should) be completely separate from the games storylines and more importantly should have differing mechanics than the overall game (in this case a goal oriented, combat focused game).
The best I can give you is
Non-integral gameplay the player chooses to engage in. Most have new mechanics and most do not offer an XP reward.
Investigations, disaster relief, disaster causing, endless horde modes, danger room training, sneaking puzzles, speed/agility/strength/skill challenges, super sports games, romance options, pet raising (including robot building), rampages, exploration, crafting, holiday events, stopping rampages, robberies, super jobs, lair building, lair destroying, super weapon construction, various forms of pvp, blah blah blah blah
The Idea is that these 'alternate activities' act as the CoT's mini games with none being integeral to complete but offering something different in gameplay. These are not missions that contacts give you...they are activities you actively go looking to do for variety.
Some of these could also be used in regular content as part of a mission arc but things like 'robberies' or 'investigations' are things that fit the genre so well it seems odd that the only time a player engages in them is during certain storylines. By giving the players all of these mini games and allowing them to choose when to do them will go a long way to breathing life into the world as well as help player rentention.
Mini games shouldn't really give end of mission rewards as much as the regular missions. The mini game is in itself the reward. ;D
But, players will complain there isn't any rewards, so... have to give em something sometimes.
Are you expecting rewards to be given at approximately, or close to, a linear curve?
ex:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/9DoyxmU.png[/img]
or is this more appropriate?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/3SaAyRQ.png[/img]
My suggestion is to make it even less appealing to expect End of mimi game Mission loot drops, so less rewarding it is.. the More mini games are run:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/5he54Mi.png[/img]
Just to make sure to funnel new players towards the Main Content. Vets will still do them, even though knowing they dont give as much loot. More for the mini games.
The rewards are not the point of this. I am trying to gauge what people feel about the mini games themselves.
This is a separate discussion that should come after the design of min games or alternate activities.. but I think the reward should reflect the type of mini game.
Investigations should net leads as per https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/650323.
Robberies should net cosmetic/QoL currency.
But the rewards are not the point of mini games from either a player or developer standpoint. Mini Games are used to extend a players interest (a change is as good as a break) which in turn extends the games life. That's the point I am making....in todays market a game that does not offer some kind of alternate activity loses players quicker than one that offers a nice variety.
+1. Mochiron. ;)
And if you can add a different game mechanic (or genre feel) to the mini game, like Winter Event Ski Chalet's downhill skiing, all the better. :)
But.... Mini (or Side) games are far and few and take up ALLOT more time to create newer game mechanics for. So, dont expect to see allot of them. :/
Try this on for size.
Any time there is a Wait/Progress Bar situation for doing something ... make it a minigame, so the Player isn't just passively waiting for the action to complete.
Star Trek Online did this quite successfully and eventually incorporated the mechanic into numerous locations where before you simply had a 5 second progress bar to wait through. Now, if you completed it in less time than allowed, [i]you finished the task early[/i]. Then they took the same idea, dressed it up differently and turned it into a question of "how many times can you complete this challenge within 1 minute" and then scored your results against that metric. It's how they ran "mining" for Dilithium Ore and running Radiation Reports for a good long time.
The point being, rather than just making the Player WAIT for something to finish, STO instead gave Players something to interact with [i]and succeed at[/i] in order to keep them active and engaged in playing the game, rather than just tuning out for a few seconds (or a minute, or whatever). Worked like a charm.
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That's only true if the 'newer mechanic' is actually a new mechanic and not ones you could find in many flash games..... think about a tower defence mini game, a card game or sliding puzzle...all of which could be dressed up in super hero outfits easily.
And keep in mind that many of these mini games could be currently designed in the game and just tweaked slightly to make them a mini game.....horde mode, bank jobs and skill challenges for example.
I think many people are thinking that for a mini game to be worthwhile it needs to reinvent the game.....it doesn't. FFVIII had that simple Triple Triad mini game. GTA has massive amounts of optional activities that are variations on existing features. CoH had the zone events.
There is no reason to not include a wide variety of mini games except over stimulation (a real issue that can drive players away as well). As I said...its prolly too late to get new mini games included for release... but working in a few alternate activities in when they design new content should be considered strongly.
I remember making a suggestion for boardgames in Pocket D. If we have a neutral ground type area where archnemesis can mingle, simple games like Chess, Checkers, and Go could be diverting. As always, not a priority over the "real" game, just something nice for when time is available.
That's a heroes chess Harry
I think it would be cool to have a Colosseum in the game where actual events take place, something similar to the Olympics, where heroes/and villains can compete against each other to see who's toon is faster, stronger, etc
An event can happen once a day, or week. Winners can rack up points that put them on a leaderboard, and become famous around the game. Winners could also win in game prizes such as currency, outfits, weapons, recipes.
I think it would also be cool to do something like the World Martial Arts Tournament in Dragon Ball Z. If done right it could be fun.
All of this would be done where people could come and spectate and vote who their favorites to win are.
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
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I don't know if anybody else has played NW and seen Sword coast adventures. NW has a feature called the Gateway whereby you can do your crafting via a browser (and hence on your phone). Also accessed from that is SCA which is a game where your pets go on an adventure and try to beat various challenges in a dice game for in-game rewards. The better quality (and hence higher level) your pets are, the better the dice you get.
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To me those fall under the heading "event", akin to the events in GW2. I wouldn't mind seeing a few more of those in CoT than we had in CoH.
The skiiing was definitely a mini-game.
Events and mini-games can definitely blur the lines. Stuff like trick-or-treating or searching for Christmas presents, for example.
One thing to keep in mind is that something like allowing the player to pilot some robot in a mission, or driving from one place to the other, also qualify as mini-games. Another classic example of a mini-game is pazaak from the Knights of the Old Republic game. Heck, provide areas / arenas in which the physics engine - or whatever - has been tweaked in a few different ways and you're halfway to two or three different mini-games (that's basically your skiing, right there). Can the map generator create giant hedge mazes at the center of which is some cup the player must find (which I totally didn't just steal from Harry Potter)? Mini-game!
I agree that they're not a high priority for launch.
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Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
The troll raves I can agree are not a mini game...its a special mob...akin to a GM.
But the fire in Steel Canyon was a mini game....
Events and mini games are not that hard to tell apart. A mini game is a small activity while an event is a large activity that can have multiple mini games with it. In your example the events were the Halloween Event and the Winter event and the mini games were the ToT and presents.
While technically true....this is not at all what I am talking about. I am talking about alternate activities that players can engage in aside from the core gameplay elements of combat driven story elements. Meaning...a repeatable and easily accessed activity a player can engage in if they choose to that is separate from missions themselves.
Launch will most likely include some form of alternate activity. Crafting, PvP, Bases, puzzles and what not.
If a mission, trial or whatever has an interesting mechanic in it then it could possibly be turned into a mini game. This not only maximizes the use of a particular aspect of development but also helps the games overall appeal.
Mini games are not something that I think can wait for years after release but should be incorporated as soon as they can....true its unlikely that launch will see many of these....but continued development should always have an eye towards the implementation of alternate activities.
I have brought this exact thing up in other threads as an example of good alternate activities. I would love a feature like this to be made for CoT. Not specifically as a mini game though....the web based design makes it suited well for phones and tablets, allowing players to access and aspect of the game while flying, on the bus or during lunch breaks. It could easily be incorporated directly into the game though as a mini game....I just think its better suited as a web based addition.
I think another fun event/mini-game would be the use of what so many anime and cartoons have used as alternative activities(such as YuYu Hakusho, Naruto, Hunter x Hunter, many more), that being a forest...
Meaning have solo or teams enter a forest with beasts of all shapes and sizes and other mysterious things, and see who makes it out the other end first, or alliveeeee, muahahahahaha ^(*~*)^ , but seriously. I'm sure there are going to be some dark forests in the game. It is a test of teamwork, trust, strength, strategy, and adaptability.
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
When interacting with glowwies, I think something as simple as typing in a password that you actually know (or partially know) can be fun. I've suggested this before, but what you could do is make sure different team members (if there are different team members) get random drops that tell part of the computer access code, then the person who clicks on the glowwie computer has to communicate with the team to try to get the code entered in the right order. You could even change the rules a little depending on difficulty level.
At lowest difficulty settings, it could be a simply 3-digit alphanumeric code, not case sensitive, and the worst thing that the clues can do to confuse you is that you might need to enter the clue code in backwards or something to get it right.
At the highest setting, there might be 9 digits to the access code, which you get in the form of three or more 3-digit clues, some clues are duds (maybe at most one is a dud) and the three that are the right ones aren't necessarily going to drop in the same order they need to be entered in, that is the first clue might say "the first three digits are 123" but that's actually the middle three digits, and it's actually 321, etc. also this version IS case sensitive.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I hate to say it, but anything requiring Players to cooperate in order to succeed is going to be a source of frustration and failure. Look at all the trouble we had to go through just to get people to click on 8 glowies all at the same time ... and even THAT couldn't be done reliably. Heck, on quite a lot of Dr. Q Taskforces, we had trouble getting [b]FOUR[/b] people to interact synchronously in order to clear the hurdle.
The basic premise of the notion you're putting forward Radiac is that Players will be predisposed to [i]usefully[/i] cooperate ... which will be true a lot of the time, but when it's not you've got Griefing potential on your hands.
So I'm not saying that the idea itself is "bad" per se, but rather highlighting that the "failure modes" of the idea do not Degrade Gracefully™. Indeed, I'd expect any (if not all) failure modes to quickly devolve into bickering, argument and other negative social responses. Suffice it to say, that's not my idea of "FUN" ... nor would I want to promote a system which allows such outcomes to be routine, let alone flourish, in the absence of PERFECT cooperation.
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I agree that it invites trolling, not to mention good old honest mistakes, but I think a lot of this stuff gets done solo, and in that regime only one person has all the code fragments. Also, you could make it obvious which glowwies in the front of the mission have code fragments (computers) and which do not (other stuff). That way teams can at least ASK people not to click glowwies that they shouldn't click. Also, it could be dumbed down to the point where it's practically a fait accompli anyway. In that scenario, the clue fragments always drop to the whole team as soon as one person get's one, they'd always be given out in the right order, there would be no dud fragments, it wouldn't be case-sensitive, and then whomever clicks the computer at the end just has to type in the code in the order received by copying off of their "clues" palette or whatever.
Also, none of this requires synchronized behavior, so server lag and so forth doesn't affect it like it did with the "click the glowwies at the same time" things in CoX. With this you just have to tell the one guy in private tells or team chat "my fragment is h1K" or whatever. At worst the code cracker toon might want to write the fragments down. Also it would be best to make sure the font makes clear the difference between the numeral one, the lowercase letter ell, and the capital letter i.
Edit: I also like the idea of offering more difficult codes and rules and then giving out badges like "Code Monkey" and "Hacker" and "Cryptographer" and "Cipher-punk" etc for getting enough codes cracked the hard way.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Yea. Anything that detracts (makes it less appealing) from joining PUG's must be avoided.
Well, for the most part, at least. :)
Also, to remove the language barrier, the codes could be done in symbols instead of letters and numbers. You'd just have to have some way of selecting symbols off of a palette or something instead of typing stuff out on the keyboard.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
We can all come up with a 'wouldn't it be cool if...' type mini game ..... that wasn't the what I was hoping this discussion would be...as there is already a thread for suggesting mini games.
I was hoping to discuss the importance or not of the inclusion of mini games/alternate activities as a concept.
I think with many of the core features nearing completion and release design being more set the eye should look a bit to the future of the game and rounding it out with these mini games/alternate activities. Especially when many of those mini games will come from the current work being done.
It's fine with me if all we get at roll-out is "click on the glowwie and watch the progress bar fill up while trying not to get interrupted" like we had in CoX, then maybe later on they roll out other things that it makes you do.
Also, I find it more fun to try to design examples of mini games than discuss their relative importance at length. So you know, you say "mini game" and I go nuts.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Well by me suggesting something I think that makes it pretty clear that I think it would be a good idea to have mini-games as well as events in the game. As long as it's done right I'm sure one or two would be fine around launch, but that is a big IF. This is quite the broad topic, because a mini game could literally be any amount of things, so it all depends on what shape or form we are talking to make a decision of, should it be in at launch or not
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"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
I agree....talking about specific mini games is fun. I ...just like many others, have a whole slew of them in my head I would love to see. But as of right now the only mini games CoT will have (possibly) at launch are crafting, leads and badges.
That's perfectly fine for launch....but I would find it very odd if the game did not start including more very soon after release.
That's why I hoped to discuss it...
Suggesting one is hardly informative. All it tells me is you have an idea for a mini game that you would enjoy. As I said...pretty much anyone can come up with one but it does not speak to the importance of their inclusion or what makes a good mini game.
This is more what I am looking to discuss. I can draw many assumptions about your statement here (or the fact that you suggested a mini game to begin with) but its highly unlikely that I would be right or even close to what you actually mean. What is 'done right' to you? How important is it to be 'done right'? How harmful is it when its 'done wrong'?
Well given that I specifically and repeatedly stated that it is unlikely to get mini games added to the launch design that were not already being worked on I am unsure where this comes from.
And yes I agree a mini game can be almost anything. That's why the suggestion of a mini game design does not further the discussion whether or not mini/games are important and what makes a good one vs a bad one. This is obviously a purely subjective discussion so there is no right or wrong answer.... just incomplete ones.
As might be gathered from my initial reaction to this subject, I'm not very enamored of the typical mini-games. I have exactly zero interest in playing Tic-Tac-Toe or Global Thermonuclear War in the middle of a MMO.
With the idea that 'mini games' are activities OTHER than beating up opponents and taking their stuff... Well, that makes Crafting, Marketing, and Badge hunting fit. In a milieu where we have Flight, jumping puzzles become less useful, but Exploration has always been a good part for me.
I like scenic Overlooks, but Cinematics aren't a great way of doing them. I lose patience with anything that says "Here, let us SHOW You what you're supposed to be looking at." That's forcing me to play in a particular way and usually I start skipping it, instead of actually Looking and Enjoying the scenery. Mark a spot for scenery appreciation, even give me a reward for going there, but let me do my Own Looking.
Perhaps the 'Scenery' game would be one of those big turret-binoculars, found at scenic places, and the 'Game' is to take snapshots of particular locations. The game can score by heading and azimuth.
I think puzzles and other cleverness are great, but not appropriate for Team content.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Examples of mini-games in Star Trek Online:
Anomaly Scanning: 6 second mini-game (do once per anomaly to complete)
[youtube]LO3d8zMNzaE[/youtube]
Dilithium Mining: 60 second mini-game per mining attempt (do 5 times in different spots to complete Mission)
[youtube]Mqlzwkji7tY[/youtube]
Radiation Reports basically follows the model of Dilithium Mining (line up the pieces and score points), but implements as a vertical scrolling square wave, rather than as a rotating "match the triangle" UI seen in Dilithium Mining.
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That's understandable.....but what about other types of mini games? Ones like a rampage wherein things need be broken or disaster relief wherein you need to divert lava flow?
I ask because it seems more (and I could be wrong) that its not mini games that bother you...its certain types of mini games that do.
Of all types of mini games....jumping puzzles (or any movement based skill puzzle) are the ones I personally dislike the most. In fact I find few people who actually do enjoy these types of puzzles...which I find odd because it is the main feature of many extremely popular games and ones I have personally enjoyed alot...Mario...Tomb Raider...Portal. Perhaps its because it seems out of place in a combat MMO...I dunno...but I can fully agree that
this is one type that I would not like to see.
This type of activity is used in a lot of games....recently Until Dawn has a few of these telescopic 'puzzles'. They are barely a mini game in my opinion and more ...as you say...a way to focus the player at a specific view. I am not against them myself as they serve a purpose in storytelling....but overuse of this would drive me nuts.
The afore mentioned Portal (well portal 2 anyway) was a co-operative puzzle game and there are two Tomb Raider games (cannot remember the names right now) that focus on co-operative puzzle solving, not to mention many other games that utilize co operative puzzles to varying success. I disagree that puzzles are not appropriate for team content.....I actually think that these types of activities can be a big boon towards teaming. But I do agree that they can be frustrating and pointless if they are not designed with players ease in mind.....what I mean is the puzzle can be difficult but that difficulty should be of the 'how to do it' variety and not from a difficulty to work the controls or require perfect timing.
Thanks for your input Fireheart.
These seem more like side-missions, to me. 'Go do something in that place.' They could easily be instanced, or open-world.
That 'binocular-spotting' mechanism might reward with a Clue?
Be Well!
Fireheart
To a certain extent they are.
The biggest difference is that they are accessed by player choice and not story. The idea is to provide players with alternate activities they can engage in by choice. Usually these should be quick activities or ones you can progress on at your own pace (like badges). A long non-progressive activity would fall more in line with trials and such.
To use an example....GTAV...in it you can go and play a game of tennis or round of golf whenever you want. These are not side missions....they are just something you can do if you feel like it.
I am suggesting mimicking that oft praised concept and offering genre suitable activities in CoT. Instead of going to play tennis.. your villain Ultra Strong Bad Guy can instead go and destroy a part of the city to let off steam or instead of golf your hero Captain Amazing Good Guy can divert the lava flow away from the city.
So yes they can be similar or even exactly like a single mission but they are specific activities the player chooses to do when they want to. My point being that these types of things are becoming an expected part of games and that they help the games longevity greatly.
As I said earlier....rewards are not the important part of this discussion. The content should be enjoyable on its own and the reward should be exactly that...a reward for doing well...not the point to doing the content. Yes I know its easy to say that and much harder in practice....but we are discussing more in the abstract right now.
For the record....the rewards for these mini games should reflect the type of activity and its difficulty. A rampage shouldn't net you the key to the city and you shouldn't get ultra rare items for a 4 piece puzzle.
In your example of 'binocular-spotting' a clue seems a suitable reward (with the understanding that we don't know how rare or what they actually will be in the game).
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Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
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Lord Nightmare suggested this...
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Bah! That's far too civilized. We need this instead...
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Is there nothing Flash can't teach us? ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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Well we COULD have this
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[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
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I think the issue here is that your(the OP) definition of mini-games is quite broad. If I'm understanding you correctly, anything outside the main content path, the over arching story, is a mini-game. I just don't agree with that definition. I consider world events like super trolls, Giant Monsters, The Ghost Ship, Steel fires, and generally street sweeping be be a core part of the game, any game. Rift, for instance sold their world events as being a core feature of the game.
My definition of a mini-game is anything that you do for your character. If you click on something and that pulls up a window and you do something in that window, as if you are your character, then that would be a mini-game. For instance, using the code entry example above, if you click a keypad and it pulls up a window or zooms to a screen where you then enter a number from memory or by matching symbols or connecting dots to form a duck, that is a mini-game. If you are in Pocket-E (it's a new game. So, they had to iterate the dimensional label) and you click a pinball machine and you get a screen that lets you play pinball, Mini-game. I'm all for these. Done well they create a bit of interest where normally something would just happen or a timer bar would scroll across the screen. Or give you a bit of amusement while you wait for your team to show up, or PVP match to start or whatever.
There are, of course, exceptions. Auction houses/in-game trading are not so much of a mini-game. They are, but they aren't. According to my definition that is something that would be a mini-game.It is one that is so common to MMO's today and it's such a key feature to many games that it is hard to call it a mini-game anymore. Similarly there can be things outside the "do for" category that I would consider mini-games. Things like Big Red Ball, or Hellion Punting, or the RWZ challenge that could have made great "mini-games."
So back to your broader definition. Yes the game absolutely needs to have things that are not driven by the main content path. That is critical not just in MMO's but to all games nowadays. The massive success that are games like GTA is due in a large part to their use of alternate activities. A living breathing MMO can't live on a single story line it must be active with events and things to do. The more experiences the devs can cram into the game the better it will be. People will talk about the content path, they will also talk about that one time they saved a kitten from a tree or solved the wiring puzzle before the bomb blew up or blew up a fuel truck that sent that that mage flying "like a mile!"
my 2 inf.
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Well no actually...my definition of alternate activities is broad....one type of those alternate activities is the mini game. Both are important to a games long term life.
Your definition of a mini game is fine...at least as I understand it (the screen becomes first person and complete tasks through the characters eyes) . But to me that is not the only type of mini game there is....chocobo racing in Final Fantasy, fishing in WoW and in CoH the Trick or Treating are all examples of mini games that do not follow your definition. Let me put it another way... whack-a-mole can be a first person view with a hammer you control to smack moles or it can be your character running around a big field using powers to knock down mole men.... both are mini games (maybe not good mini games but still).
That's kinda my point, a mini game can be almost anything so trying to separate it from the concept of events or (my personal favorite) alternate activities will only bog the discussion down in pointless definitions. Now...just so I can bog the discussion down in a pointless definition...the best way I find to define them is by scope/time required to completion and to a lesser extent player choice of participating.
That's almost exactly how I feel....
This is something I touch upon earlier. The idea that there can be too much of a good thing. If there are a million and one separate activities then a new player could easily be overwhelmed by it and become discouraged, too many separate options stretch the development too thin meaning some things (or worse all things) are not fully fleshed out resulting in an overall weak game.
I still maintain that mini games and alternate activities are important but the flip side is that if they cannot be fully explored in development or will overwhelm players then its probably not worth the time invested in it for either the game or the players.
Thanks for your thoughts Grimfox.