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Farming?

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PoshBum
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Farming?

How will farming be addressed in CoT?

I know the CoH community was kinda split on the issue. Some people looked down on others who did it and were very against the practice. I was in the camp that not only enjoyed farming, but also the benefits it offered. While it is true that you're missing out on content by taking the "easy" road to the level camp, here's the thing: you can only ever experience the content once. While it wasn't possible to experience everything in one go, not only was the Time Travel stuff put in place for this very reason and to get badges, but making alts constantly was something everyone seemed to be guilty of doing. And there just wasn't enough content in those first 20 and even 40 levels. If you're skipping the story boxes and just trying to finish the mission anyway, why is repeating a specific mission over and over so bad?

Because eventually, you'll just want levels. And if you play through the game enough times, this WILL happen. And if even if you're not, say, repeating the TV mission for INF or Architect missions for XP, you were grinding something else be it TFs or paper/radio missions. Farming was just the most efficient mean to the same end.

That said, will CoT's party and questing system allow for farming and will steps be taken to mitigate it? How much does the CoT dev team hate farming?

Another question, how will PVP work? Most importantly, will there be rewards enough to make it desirable? Some people I talked to in CoH felt the PVP was perfect and didn't need to be changed in the slightest despite only a few specific builds and power sets being viable and minimal rewards for player kills in the PVP zones which were frequently barren and the Arena was frequently empty even on the higher population servers even after the ability to queue from anywhere was added.

Sorry if these were answered elsewhere. I couldn't find the search function for the forum and I didn't see them addressed in the FAQ.

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The thread about a mission

The thread about a mission creator has a discussion about farming, including input from devs.

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PoshBum
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Cool, thanks. Seems the

Cool, thanks. Seems the general consensus is to support it. I approve.

What about the PVP though?

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There is no FAQ or wiki (or

There is no FAQ or wiki (or even a developer tracker, alas) yet. Hopefully someone at MWM will have the time to get on that sooner rather than later. In fairness, even the big studios generally appear to prefer the shotgun approach to information.

As far as I know, one of the only definite pieces of information we have on PvP is that every zone will have a PvP instance/shard for open world PvP. The only other information of which I am aware is that the devs do want balanced PvP, but whether or how that is practicable is an unknown. Of course, at this stage of development everything is either subject to change or an unknown. There has been plenty of discussion about PvP - some of it even useful! - in the PvP forum, which you may find informative.

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I'm not sure how I feel about

I'm not sure how I feel about balanced PVP. Thanos one on one against Jubilee is completely unfair, but that's the way it is. The universal powers that be don't size him down or power her up to make things fair. Of course that's a comic, and not a game, but I still feel if you have a character with extraordinary power, you shouldn't be penalized for it because someone sucks at the game or hasn't had the time to invest. Level range is fine as far as balance goes. Don't want level 5s being mugged by level 45s. I do like that there will be PvP instance in ever zone. I always wanted to fight PVP in Dark Astoria or Croatoa. Balanced or not, I'd still play it. This conversation of course is for the PvP forum link you provided, but I couldn't help it.

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5 OClock Shadow wrote:
5 OClock Shadow wrote:

Thanos one on one against Jubilee is completely unfair, but that's the way it is. The universal powers that be don't size him down or power her up to make things fair.

Although they could and sometimes did. Dazzler beat Galactus. They used the villains and a one shot plot device to let Spider-Man knock Super-man around for a few pages. Squirrel Girl.. well.. existed.

Don't underestimate the power of creative thinking and explanations. :)

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5 OClock Shadow wrote:
5 OClock Shadow wrote:

I'm not sure how I feel about balanced PVP. Thanos one on one against Jubilee is completely unfair, but that's the way it is. The universal powers that be don't size him down or power her up to make things fair. Of course that's a comic, and not a game, but I still feel if you have a character with extraordinary power, you shouldn't be penalized for it because someone sucks at the game or hasn't had the time to invest. Level range is fine as far as balance goes. Don't want level 5s being mugged by level 45s. I do like that there will be PvP instance in ever zone. I always wanted to fight PVP in Dark Astoria or Croatoa. Balanced or not, I'd still play it. This conversation of course is for the PvP forum link you provided, but I couldn't help it.

I agree. Thanos needs more help. Jubilee is way too powerful to be put up against one on one.

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AmbiDreamer wrote:
AmbiDreamer wrote:

5 OClock Shadow wrote:
Thanos one on one against Jubilee is completely unfair, but that's the way it is. The universal powers that be don't size him down or power her up to make things fair.
Although they could and sometimes did. Dazzler beat Galactus. They used the villains and a one shot plot device to let Spider-Man knock Super-man around for a few pages. Squirrel Girl.. well.. existed.
Don't underestimate the power of creative thinking and explanations. :)

These are great examples, and exactly what I'd love to see in PvP, Dazzler taking out Galactus through some extraordinary means. But there was explanation behind it, not because she fought him toe to toe and he got weaker. That's why balancing characters kills creativity/ingenuity, and basically gets rid of terribly overused biblical analogies.

oOStaticOo wrote:

5 OClock Shadow wrote:
I'm not sure how I feel about balanced PVP. Thanos one on one against Jubilee is completely unfair, but that's the way it is. The universal powers that be don't size him down or power her up to make things fair. Of course that's a comic, and not a game, but I still feel if you have a character with extraordinary power, you shouldn't be penalized for it because someone sucks at the game or hasn't had the time to invest. Level range is fine as far as balance goes. Don't want level 5s being mugged by level 45s. I do like that there will be PvP instance in ever zone. I always wanted to fight PVP in Dark Astoria or Croatoa. Balanced or not, I'd still play it. This conversation of course is for the PvP forum link you provided, but I couldn't help it.

I agree. Thanos needs more help. Jubilee is way too powerful to be put up against one on one.

Had to make an expansive difference in power to get my point across. Poor Thanos--never again.

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.... What? Are you implying

.... What? Are you implying that imbalance fuels creativity/ingenuity? Because the Smash Bros Brawl meta game would like a word with you. 40+ characters, a fraction of which are viable, and even then it was disproportionately a single character not only winning tournaments but also making up generally 7 places of the top 10 spots. You can be as creative as you want with, say, Bowser and be really good with him, but even an average player will still win most of the time if he picks Meta Knight and if he's at all decent you're screwed.

I hate to be THAT guy, this is only my third ever post on this forum, but I can't wrap my head around your logic at all. I'm fairly certain that an unbalanced PVP would create a stagnant and boring environment. Rewards aside, that's probably the main reason why i never got into CoH's PVP. An entire portion of the game could be closed off to me simply because of my choice of powers or even my archtype. How does that NOT kill creativity/ingenuity?

Could you please explain your reasoning, because I'd really like to understand it.

Furthermore, while I'm here, I'd like to state that I've had the most fun with SW:TOR's PVP and considered just paying for a pass to play that as much as I want as opposed to a full monthly fee. Or not playing the game at all like I ended up doing.

In that game, you can just casually queue for PVP. You had an objective of some kind (Hutt Ball was amazingly good), so you couldn't just wipe out your enemies and win, though it helped. And if you were underleveled for your bracket you had your stats buffed to whatever they would be at the top of your bracket. You didn't gain any new abilities that you'd have to manage and learn on the fly (my problem with GW2's PVP right there) nor skill points for your (old WoW-like) talent tree. And once your reached about level 15 or so you had pretty much all of your important core skills.

Not only was this easy for new players to get into, but veteran players, like myself, who knew what they were doing could keep up with and at times overcome a higher leveled opponent. And even if you couldn't, the goal was never to kill the most dudes anyway.

Additionally, I glanced over some of what's in the PVP forum and I think having an instance of PVP in every zone, or whatever, is a bad idea. CoH only had 3 and from what I could tell, only RV was ever populated at all and it wasn't uncommon for it to be completely empty. Likewise, WoW has dozens of such areas. All barren except for presumably the highest level one.

I think if you're going to have open world PVP like that, you need to keep it in one place. ESO, for all it's faults, seems like it had the right idea there, but I haven't experienced it first hand so I can't say for sure.

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I agree with your point to an

I agree with your point to an extent. If this was a fighting game, then it would make sense for everyone to be balanced. Fighting in rounds to be the victor isn't the point of an MMO though; it's becoming the best you can be and overcoming challenges. If PvP is balanced out in CoT, you bet I will still participate in it. What I am saying is, if someone's character progressed to the fringes of ultimate power or is a master tactician who is difficult to out smart, then no one should be able to beat them until another character becomes comparable, or characters join forces to take them down. Players shouldn't be penalized for their superiority. Like in the comics, characters join forces and take out that Dr. Doom or Mr. Sinister. That is what I would like to see in PvP. The problem is most people aren't strategists, people can't/won't take orders, or even want to be challenged; hence door sitting PLing. I'm not going to pretend this way would be more popular than a system where everyone is equal because it isn't. I was simply stating that it's more of a real threat to over come. Also, for me to say balance kills creativity was an exaggeration on my part--thanks for catching that. I stepped my bounds there; however, you need to be far more creative and ingenious to defeat a force far greater than you.

From a logical perspective, it doesn't make any sense to have designated PvP areas. Why would characters not be able to attack each other on the streets? It's forced order. Personally, I enjoy forced order, and certainly wouldn't want to be attacked by players in PvE. I'd get annoyed as hell, and I'm glad PvE/PvP are separated. At least if there's a PVP instanced version of the world, PvPers aren't unrealistically stuck in the same old zones like some designated smoking area, and you won't be restricted by some unknown force stopping you from jabbing the guy next to you in the face. I'm all about there being level range instances. Anyone who enters an instance lower than his level would be scaled down. Like I said, there shouldn't be lvl 45s beating up lvl 5s.

PvP zones are always empty because people don't like PvP. It has to do with effort + reward + game flow. If any of those variables are disrupted, they move on to something else. If they expect they're always going to die, get no reward, and accomplish nothing, then why even bother with it? I played PvP more often than others. I had my ass kicked, and I kicked a lot of ass. I've called on people in PvE to take out PvP nuisances who dominated everyone, and it worked almost every time to take him out. It'd be awesome if you could call on your closely aligned NPC factions (TCPD, Black Rose, Scorpion, Freedom Corp CoT equivalent) to hunt him/them down with you depending how much of a threat that player has been to you. That player should be rewarded if he defeats all of them too.

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At the very least, as far as

At the very least, as far as solo PvPing is concerned anyway, I think CoH could have made it more clear exactly what class/archetype was viable. For example, my Thugs/Poison MM was pretty much food in RV. My lack of a travel power didn't help as I recall.

PvP in general is such a different beast from PvE in any game. CoH could have used some sort of introduction to it. Suggestions on what you should focus on and what not. I know you can just look at guides, but it would have been easier for John Q. Public if it was in the game, you know?

In contrast, PvE is really straight forward. Here's a group of enemies. Here's another. Careful, there's a patrol coming. Group of enemies. Group of enemies... Occasionally you'll get one of those needle in the hay stack style missions with the huge open area and the one guy you need to kill/thing you need to click on hidden somewhere. Just don't use, what was it called... Power Blasting? And your golden.

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